Pump is Bad :(

[Wayne64SS]

Hey guys the guy just came for the pump. Real squirrely looking guy but w/e. Put an amp-meter on the power wire and showed me the reading. first bang pump comes on, 20amps, then immediately back to zero followed by a bang. Says the pump is shot and he needs to come back tomorrow and pull it out. Says $1.50 a foot to pull it, then around $525 for a pump if the wires/lines are good.

Does this sound like an accurate diagnosis? I checked the water tank and it had right at 30psi with zero pressure in the system and no water out of the air valve, so i'm gonna say the tank is good.

Should i go ahead and have him replace this tomorrow? I just don't wanna get screwed.

[Wayne64SS]

he went for the box and i told him it had been disconnected previously. he said that the pump was probably replaced. when he took the cap off the well out front there was the other end of the disconnected red wire.

as for the amps, it went from 0 to 20-21 and then back down immediately. all this within like 2 seconds inbetween the bangs. then a pause then repeated. during the pause the amps were at zero. its like its trying to start but can't and overloads. funny thing is it spins just long enough to get maybe 1/2psi into the house each time.

[valveman]

Sounds like a very fair price to me. Yes he probably should have checked for a short down hole. However, if the correct voltage is there, and the overload keeps tripping, you are probably going to need to pull the pump just to see what the problem is anyway. Once the pump is out, you can check it for a short and see which end is locked up. Could be just something stuck in the pump. Most likely the motor or pump is locked up though. If it is, it would probably be best to replace the whole unit. Most pumps are designed to only last about 7 years anyway. If you just replace one end or the other, you will probably be doing it again very soon.

[Wayne64SS]

I have no problem spending the money to have it done right... I didn't think $1000-$1200 was a bad price, plus he said he would work with me no problem. What kind of warranty should I ask for / about on the new one? Also should i look at installing a low pressure saftey switch to prevent the new pump from seizing under a low water condition? The well has run down on me in the past. I'm confident I can handle that part myself. I could remove my existing pressure guage, use a T fitting, one end to the new cutoff switch, the other to the existing guage. Then its just wiring it in right?

He also said it was probably caused by NOT having a second check valve up in the house (I currently only have the one down on the pump which I understand is the correct way to have it)? What should I do if he won't warranty anything if I don't let him put a second check valve in?

[valveman]

5 year warranties are available for most pump brands for and extra 30 or 50 bucks. I threw 99% of them away after 5 years but, the 1% that used it was glad they had it. There is a very good chance that it will run more than 5 years anyway, so you could save the 50 bucks. If you are in that 1% though, the 50 bucks is cheap. The pump should come with at least one year, and maybe three years, even without paying extra for the extended warranty.

You just need to replace the existing pressure switch with a low pressure cut off pressure switch.

I don't like the second check valve but, it won't hurt your pump until it starts causing a water hammer. Some states even require a second check valve. However, they also usually require a system set up so that there can be no chance of a negative pressure on the underground line. You can't have a second check valve without causing a negative pressure in the underground pipe but, some states don't understand that. If he requires a second check for his own warranty, then by all means let him put one in. I very seriously doubt that not having a second check had anything to do with your pump failure. Would probably have a broken pump shaft or stripped spline if that were the case.

[Wayne64SS]

5 year warranties are available for most pump brands for and extra 30 or 50 bucks. I threw 99% of them away after 5 years but, the 1% that used it was glad they had it. There is a very good chance that it will run more than 5 years anyway, so you could save the 50 bucks. If you are in that 1% though, the 50 bucks is cheap. The pump should come with at least one year, and maybe three years, even without paying extra for the extended warranty.

You just need to replace the existing pressure switch with a low pressure cut off pressure switch.

I don't like the second check valve but, it won't hurt your pump until it starts causing a water hammer. Some states even require a second check valve. However, they also usually require a system set up so that there can be no chance of a negative pressure on the underground line. You can't have a second check valve without causing a negative pressure in the underground pipe but, some states don't understand that. If he requires a second check for his own warranty, then by all means let him put one in. I very seriously doubt that not having a second check had anything to do with your pump failure. Would probably have a broken pump shaft or stripped spline if that were the case.


excellent. exactly what i was looking for. Thank you all very much for your help. I will post how i make out tonight along with some pics along the way.

I will put that pressure switch in after the pump is replaced. i can't see paying this guy to do something i can do by myself no problem. You can't be scared to do a little plumbing electrical nowadays!

[Wayne64SS]

the well saga continued:

Well the guy was here at 4:30, had everything out and back in by 5:45 and we were pumping some new water. Everything seems good, good pressure in the house, NO BANGING, etc. Now for the bad news.... I got hit with $350 in labor and this meatball wasn't even here 2 hours. Maybe I'm in the wrong business? He did give me a $100 discount for paying cash. Anyway I'm happy to report all is well in the middle of nowhere. I made him give me the old pump so that i could take it apart and post pics... I dunno what was wrong with it though?? Spun fine by hand, and the check wasn't stuck or clogged. There was a bit of grit/sand/mud/whatever in the pump upon disassembly....

On a side note: I think that all the money for these pumps must be in the motor, because the pump internals are actually mostly plastic and easy to make. Maybe its not plastic, maybe its Unobtanium. lol anyway enjoy the pics. I took a pic of the model # of the old pump and a pic of the box of the new one. The guy said he put in a better pump.. same horse more flow?

Old pump part #:
http://lh4.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crPJIA-wI/AAAAAAAAAVI/aZ-iSPDXNcI/s800/DSC01901.JPG

Box for new pump:
http://lh5.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crXZIA-8I/AAAAAAAAAWo/1WPVdiHu2Ds/s800/DSC01913.JPG

Inside - before disassembly:
http://lh6.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crPpIA-xI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/v1WtAnyifzQ/s800/DSC01902.JPG

First set of plastic peices removed:
http://lh6.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crRpIA-0I/AAAAAAAAAVo/q1oKJ-C3wa4/s800/DSC01905.JPG


I'm limited to 4 images at a time... so next!

[Wayne64SS]

Inside pump with first section removed:
http://lh6.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crSpIA-1I/AAAAAAAAAVw/T5_KIWdXhuw/s800/DSC01906.JPG

Both sections of Unobtanium removed:
http://lh6.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crTpIA-2I/AAAAAAAAAV4/A2P0O_Nu1r8/s800/DSC01907.JPG

Inside pump with first and second section out:
http://lh4.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crUJIA-3I/AAAAAAAAAWA/j6Er1CfqdDA/s800/DSC01908.JPG

All of the sections taken apart 1st is bottom right last is top left:
http://lh3.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crU5IA-4I/AAAAAAAAAWI/5ODdBstZqRQ/s800/DSC01909.JPG

and again.

[Wayne64SS]

Inside of pump after disassembly:
http://lh5.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crVZIA-5I/AAAAAAAAAWQ/tMwR7CgtsjU/s800/DSC01910.JPG

Shaft that runs through the center:
http://lh4.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crWJIA-6I/AAAAAAAAAWY/E2pQJQWoe_U/s800/DSC01911.JPG

Bottom underside of the pump where it mates to motor:
http://lh3.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crQ5IA-zI/AAAAAAAAAVg/nAXqK5Is6kE/s800/DSC01904.JPG

[Wayne64SS]

This is the top of the motor:
http://lh5.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crQZIA-yI/AAAAAAAAAVY/mFLbD9gY1iM/s800/DSC01903.JPG

Resistance (ohmmeter set to 200) at motor connection:
http://lh3.google.com/Wayne64SS/R9crW5IA-7I/AAAAAAAAAWg/VKcrB-uSviY/s800/DSC01912.JPG

I hope this can help anyone else out there who wonders whats inside these things and how they work. I know i have a vastly better understanding now.

[Cass]

how deep was it?

[Wayne64SS]

well is around 300 ft and the bill was a total of $1100.

[Raucina]

So the main question is what happens when you hook the motor up to power???

If it runs at normal amp draw, you can put it back together and save it for the next swap.

Figure 200 bucks for driving to the middle of no-where.

[Wayne64SS]

They are 220 right? Only reason i ask is because it has a double breaker in the basement... If thats the case i can just wire it up for a 220v plug and pulg it into the big outlets in the garage to test it.... leaving a wire running through my ammeter.

This thing looks like it would make one helluva potato cannon..... :)

[speedbump]

Your pretty good with that camera.

I didn't see anything wrong in the Pics. What wires were you testing with the ohm meter? The two blacks I assume. And the meter says the motor is not open. Try the meter from either black wire to the motor case and tell us what you get.

bob...

[Wayne64SS]

Your pretty good with that camera.

I didn't see anything wrong in the Pics. What wires were you testing with the ohm meter? The two blacks I assume. And the meter says the motor is not open. Try the meter from either black wire to the motor case and tell us what you get.

bob...

thanks, its my girls cheapy... mine the batt was dead. i wasn't even trying to take decent pics.

I will check that when i get a shot... tonight is relax/drinking night so it might not be tonight. then again, maybe it will, but the pics might be alittle blurry ;)

[speedbump]

I didn't mean the quality, I meant the way you put a screw driver in a picture to show a size ratio etc. I would never have the skills to do that.

bob...

[Wayne64SS]

rofl thats just where i set the screwdriver! I didn't even notice it was in the pic till you just pointed it out ahahah

[thassler]

You're supposed to say "Yeah speedbump, I always do that to show scale in the picture."

[speedbump]

Too late, the Cat's out of the bag now!