Just FYI Rheem Power Vent

[Cass]

I just had to replace a Flammable Vapor Sensor on a newer Rheem Power Vent.

The sensor sits on the outside front just below the burner and is attached to the sheet metal.

It is about the size of a thimble and is $157.00... :eek:

Lucky for the home owner it was under warranty.

[master plumber mark]

that is fairley expensive......


how much did you stick them for on the labor?????


CASS....how much should I charge on this one ..........

Today, I get a call from a real estate lady that

2 years ago she insisted
she could get a power vent water heater from her brother
in Chicago much cheaper that I priced one to her..

I said ok, and we installed her STATE power vent heater... for labor only
I told her it was junk from the get go... but noooooooo...
she wasnt going to hear that.....

Now less than 2 years later.......its leaking..
and I got to run and get one and install it tomorrow......

for how much????...... what is it worth?????

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Tank leak means it's under warranty under the 6 year rule; doesn't matter where you bought it. Go to any plumbing supply house with the serial # tag and they'll gladly swap you out with a new one @ no charge IF they sell State.


Sounds like a defective tank, will save your customer a minimum $600 on the tank, just charge for your labor to replace the tank.

[master plumber mark]

Rugged,,, yes I know how to do the water heater exchange...

my queston is what everyone gets to change out a

"I told you so " water heater.......

[construct30]

Everything has doubled in price in the last two years, charge more than you did the first time and blame it on the fuel prices. I wonder how happy they will be to pay labor to put the same brand back in. I've had people that figure it was better to cut their losses and upgrade in a case like that.

[Cookie]

Mark, if as a consumer, I purchased a water heater and paid you to install it and two years later, the heater went bad any savings from getting a deal on the heater would be gone because I lost the gamble. I would have to pay you again, and maybe more than the last time because everything has gone up.

[construct30]

That's why when people make the mistake once they decide to just buy a better brand the second time rather than getting the cheap one replaced under warranty. If the cheap replacement goes bad in two years again they will be out even more labor money. I think thats how these makers of junk stay in business even with a warranty, most people wise up and realize a "free" replacement is not such a good deal.

[Cass]

Mark, I would charge the same price as the last time and tell them that if it happens again that it will be the same rate then.

Remind them that when they purchase something and have it installed and it goes bad they lose, even if it goes bad the day after instlation.

Even I charge again after 1 year on a tank I supply. The labor on a heater does not go the 6 years like the tank.

[construct30]

I generally do water heaters, toilets and faucets flat rate, if someone buys it themselves, I charge the flate rate again if it goes bad on them, if I bought it then it is usually free for a year then I still go a better than usual deal for at least two years. If your flate rate has gone up in the past two years, then you should charge whatever your going rate is now, I would assume your price has gone up in the past couple of years.

[master plumber mark]

I usually give a 2 year labor warraty on my heaters and I
have considered bumping it up to 3........

that extra labor warranty certainly makes the water heaters move out the door much quicker...

with a 2 year warranty, their is very littel downside to it with the Rheem and Bradford heaters...

I would never, ever ...give more than one year on a Smith or State heater....

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I never purchase the water heater to be installed but I give a lifetime warranty on workmanship. If it was ever proven that I installed it incorrectly, they get their money back.


When any customer buys a water heater, whether it was purchased at a big box store or plumbing supply house, when they call stating it's not working, I give them the factory rep's number to come out and work on it.

When they want me to come out, I tell them I'm charging for my time which can void the warranty of that tank knowing it's covered by warranty by the trained reps. I didn't make the water heater, I installed it. I tell them that if the factory rep finds that I've incorrectly installed your water heater and caused the current problem you're having, I'll cover the expense of the rep coming to fix your water heater.

It's that simple.



Which one of you is offering to give the customer an additional $600+ to buy a new water heater when a new one is promised as part of the implied warranty.

That's a smoking deal to get by with just a labor charge...

First chance my #2 pencil breaks I'm automatically buying a pen.

[Cass]

So you don't work on water heaters...even a thermocouple or heating element? Or are you talking about items under warranty.

[hj]

A replacement heater installation is the same price as a new one, less the cost of the heater after any adminsitrative costs of the warranty are deducted. Here State has left the state so any warrantees still left are a hassle because you have to deal with State directly.

[hj]

A replacement heater is the same price as a new one, less the cost of the heater after any adminsitrative costs of the warranty are deducted. Here State has left the state so any warrantees still left are a hassle because you have to deal with State directly.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

So you don't work on water heaters...even a thermocouple or heating element? Or are you talking about items under warranty.


I never touch them under warranty, I don't mess with power vents because I don't want to stock 100's of dollars of parts for all 3 mfg's of the heaters being used.

I'm now not installing/replacing water heaters because I just need to write it off as a piece of history, just like digging ditches in my earlier years.

Has to do with the risk of physical injury, the constant dull-drum of being price-shopped to death, the time span from pickup of heater to pulling away that crowds my schedule......1/2 a day is the worst case scenario, 2 hours if a perfect situation from supply house to collecting payment.

All of these new heaters are larger, bigger because of the FVIR application and/or R value requirement. Give a price over the phone and you get there,

dryer
ventilated shelving
condensate drain all of which have to be removed and reinstalled just to get the heater in.

I find the task very demeaning.....I don't think I've ever mentioned that before. It has a lot to do with being a hired monkey for sears/home depot/american home shield installing nothing but water heaters for a year straight, 3 to 5 a day. Physically impossible for me to do in my present day and time. Those were long days and the people had no respect for the installer.

They consider the talent of the replacement a simple one, and to a degree it really is. I felt like one of those Aaron's Rental places where you pick up furniture and replace it.

Homie say no mo!

[Cookie]

I can understand you worrying about getting injured, but you can actually lessen the toll it takes on your body very easily, it just takes working at it. I am 53, not that young anymore but, I found 10 years ago, when the big C started to make me weak I needed to make my body stronger. So, I started to excercise more. Through so many health problems, which include the Big C and actually, heart problems due to the chemos, (3 heart attacks) I have managed to pull it all together and now, thankfully, I am pretty strong. I am not gloating here, just trying to set an example it can be done. You can turn it around, especially at your age. Buy an excercise bike & treadmill and put it in your garage. It really works. Then you will be able to whip those suckers up & over your head without a worry. I had a father who was the strongest man I ever knew. At age 61 he could lift a sofa up and over his head, by himself. His brother walked at least 10 miles a day. It is fun to change your lifestyle around andI like to challenge myself. I am going to run one year in the Boston Marathon and Heartbreak Hill is a big challenge ask any New Englander. Just do it Rugged for 6 months, see what happens. You have nothing to lose.

[Redwood]

So Rugged, What you're saying is you don't need the hernia, or, the blown out back! If it's bigger than a 60 and not a walkout basement I'm including a second guy! I'll include a second even on a smaller one if access is difficult!

You don't make money lying on your back! If the job is going to put you on your back being underbid is a good thing. If they are that cheap they don't have as much to lose!:cool:

[Cookie]

Oh, so true Redwood, especially the gas ones, those are HEAVY. The electrics aren't so bad though. But, I don't lug them around either, lol.

I reckon, those gas ones would be a 2 man job. Don't you guys use dollies? It is less on the knees and back.

[master plumber mark]

the State power vent was not available in town
so I had to install a Bradford white and get a credit
from state to compensate me for the white heater.....

all in all about $400...for labor

another Bradford white today 40 gal $975

another brad 50 today $700....

service call for $250.....

we did not leave our office till 9.30am
got home at 5......and one guy called in sick too....

Rugged .....water heaters can really add up very quickly.
but I think you were traumatized at an early age..

I agree with you about the hardware stores
I will never do them for any hardware store..no way....
that is like being chinese slave labor.


I dont like to do the 75 gallons anymore
I always like to throw the 75 gallon heaters located
down in a finished walk up stairs basement to
LOWES or HD....

those guys have to install them for about $170......

I figure this will kill my competition eventually......

[Dunbar Plumbing]

It's the most priced shopped fixture in plumbing.......at least it is in my office.

Standing for long periods of time on concrete increases my med intake as well......can wear out my liver.

It just feels so good to say no. No more worrying about hitting walls or dripping tanks on the carpet.

What cracks me up is when I say no and they act shocked. Then try to hustle a price out of me. The phone accidentally hangs up at that point.

WhooopS!:eek:

[master plumber mark]

It is much , much easier than rolling around in sewage
in a crawlspace all day

its much easier than wrestling a sewage cable
covered in crap..laying in it whil you are pulling roots back
that actually scare the customer...


that is something I cant stand is being shopped for the
lowest price to come out and clean out a drain


being shopped to re-set a toilet....


haggeling with someone over 15 dollars ect



it happens with everything....

I just dont like the dirt.....

[Dunbar Plumbing]

It is much , much easier than rolling around in sewage
in a crawlspace all day

its much easier than wrestling a sewage cable
covered in crap..laying in it whil you are pulling roots back
that actually scare the customer...


that is something I cant stand is being shopped for the
lowest price to come out and clean out a drain


being shopped to re-set a toilet....


haggeling with someone over 15 dollars ect



it happens with everything....

I just dont like the dirt.....


Okay dammit.......


I'm putting in a 40 gallon RHEEM PowerVent next week. Sheesh! And a water softener to boot. Me thinks another WATERBOSS!!!



The property owner has an hourly servant that is going to do the manual labor of lifting drilling and going to the hospital after he pulls this old water heater out of the basement. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm just the canned brains for the job.

[No Leaks]

I just replace a Rheem power vent Vapor Sensor. The list price was $13.40. Could you tell me where you were charged that much for the part?

[Cass]

My local Rheem dealer in Cincinnati. I was not charged that but I called them to see what the cost was thinking I might just buy one if the part was inexpensive enough to warrant just buying one instead of waiting for one to be shipped because it was under warranty, in order to get hot water to my customer sooner.

Where did you buy one for $13.40? I'll buy 2-3 and keep them on the truck if I can get them that cheap.

[Cass]

Well I called Rheem today and asked how much a FVS would cost me and I was told that since I didn't have an account that I would have to pay with a CC and it would be $57.90.

If I had an account it would be much less.

I then called back to my Rheem Dealer and they confirmed that their price was 157.00.

WOW is all I can say.

[No Leaks]

I think the confusion is that there are actually three parts to what they call the "assembly." One is the sensor, which is what typically fails. Two is the small, white plastic retainer that receives the sensor, then clips into the base of the water heater. Three is the wiring harness. The 2008 Rheem parts list, page 26, shows the FV Sensor, #AP13447, at a cost of $13.40. (Other manufacturers who use Robertshaw seem to also include the entire gas valve in the pricing, assuming I suppose that you should just start from scratch when you have an emergency shut-down.)

Here's how I got the customer hot water overnight: According to Rheem/GE tech support, if you do an ohmeter test of the sensor, it should read between 9 and 44 K ohms. (The one I did last week read slightly low.) At Radio Shack I bought a "five pack" of 33 K ohm resistors, which set me back $.99. That's right, five for a buck. Install one of the resistors in place of the sensor, then follow the re-setting sequence. The heater will fire up. Please remember, this is only a temporary "fix" and will not provide the safety protection necessary. I only did it so that my customer wouldn't have a cold shower the next morning. We were able to buy the sensor from our supplier, then return the warranty-supplied sensor that was shipped to our customer.

[bbensten]

That is a great tip. Could you tell me the exact Radio shack part you used? was it http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062332 ? I have the same dire need and with the labor day holiday, the client is very upset. If I could come up with a temp fix like this it would be fantastic! I just need to make sure the voltage for the resistor is right.

[Redwood]

Install one of the resistors in place of the sensor, then follow the re-setting sequence. The heater will fire up. Please remember, this is only a temporary "fix" and will not provide the safety protection necessary. I only did it so that my customer wouldn't have a cold shower the next morning.

That doesn't sound like very safe advice...
I'd pass on this tip!

[bbensten]

I tried that trick this morning and nothing... same error condition. Anyone have any other ideas?

[Redwood]

Call a plumber to troubleshoot the water heater and repair it as needed.
Bypassing safety devices with a water heater is not a good direction to go.

If the problem is the overfiring sensor it is a non repairable, non replaceable item and a new water heater is required. The plumber should be able to troubleshoot the unit and determine the problem.

Your safety depends on proper operation of this water heater.

[SewerRatz]

I just came across a Rheem 75 Gal power Vent heater with the error code reading stating the FVS was tripped. I just shut the heater down for 10 seconds and restarted it and it fired right up. The home owner informed the heater is only 4 months old. From what I understand of these FV sensors is they are a one time shot deal. So since the heater fired right up after a reset the FVS is still working. Any ideas what else would cause a false reading? She did say when she first moved in to the home that it happened then but the FVS was replaced due to the varnish for the hardwood floors had tripped it off.

Also I noticed you all made mention to a parts list. Where can I find this. I looked up and down on Rheem's website and all I can find is a generic breakdown for the homeowners. Also is there some sort of a troubleshooting guide that Rheem gives out the the contractor? I normally service Bradford White in my area, and Bradford White is nice enough to give us contractors a troubleshooting guide for their tankless and power-vent units.