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bobkatbf
02-24-2008, 03:35 PM
Has their been a class action lawsuit or recall of American Standard Champion toilets (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4833&highlight=champion+review)?

jimbo
02-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Your source for info is www.cpsc.gov (http://www.cpsc.gov)

I went there and seached toilets, found none. Searched American Standard and found some HVAC stuff, nothing in the plumbing arena.

If you have followed various plumbing forums, you already know that there seemed to be a lot of earlier issues with the Champion, but the Champion 4 may have most of it resolved. The Cadet 3 is probably the best performance/value choice in the AmStd lineup, if you don't like pressure assisted toilets.

Terry
02-24-2008, 04:43 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/as/champion_new_part.jpg
If you have the Champion (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4833&highlight=champion+review) with the flush tower, you may want to ask American Standard for the replacement flush valve.
Don't forget a 1/2" deep socket to remove the tank nuts.

http://www.americanstandardclassaction.com/

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/as/champion_tank_lid.jpg
Notice the factory chip out of the right side of the tank lid,
It's been sanded and glazed over at the factory, and sold that way.
I guess a broken lid is good enough to sell.

Mikey
02-24-2008, 05:30 PM
I guess a broken lid is good enough to sell.
Yeah, who's going to notice it in the back there? Put a doily on it or something.

Terry
02-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah, who's going to notice it in the back there? Put a doily on it or something.

To a plumber, it does make a difference. When I send a plumber out with a toilet, and it's broken at the factory, it's becomes a waste of time.
This particular tank had been bought at a home center, but I were the one supplying it, it would mean a second trip to bring back a good one.
I've also seen factory patch jobs in the tank that weeped water onto the floor, and I've also seen the comments about patch jobs on lower trapways that leaked.
As an installing plumber, I don't think I should have to expect to carry two tanks, two bowls, to make sure I have one toilet to install.
If I'm finding that they are putting "B" grade product in the boxes, I'm not going to be going out of my way to unload them for the manufacturer.
It's my name and reputation on the block.

Redwood
02-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I've also seen the comments about patch jobs on lower trapways that leaked.

After I experienced that twice I stopped buying Am. Std.

Fool me once shame on you!
Fool me twice shame on me!
Fool me three times... I'd have to be a freakin masochist!

bobkatbf
02-25-2008, 08:44 AM
We have the original Champion toilets that we bought in 2005.

Redwood
02-25-2008, 09:37 AM
Your source for info is www.cpsc.gov (http://www.cpsc.gov)

I went there and seached toilets, found none. Searched American Standard and found some HVAC stuff, nothing in the plumbing arena.

If you have followed various plumbing forums, you already know that there seemed to be a lot of earlier issues with the Champion, but the Champion 4 may have most of it resolved. The Cadet 3 is probably the best performance/value choice in the AmStd lineup, if you don't like pressure assisted toilets.

This site would only have information on product safety related recalls...
Not nusances like the Chumpian defects

plumbtired
02-25-2008, 09:17 PM
Home Depot is known to carry seconds (haven't heard that about Lowes, though). I'd bet the pictured defective tank cover was a HD purchase!

Per the Champion defects: American Standard is replacing the miserable piston-style flush valve with the flapper style, as shown in Terry's photo. It's a world of difference on how the Champion toilet performs...well worth the replacement's hassle of removing the tank, then re-seating it.

Per the vendors selling the Champion (like Home Depot = HD): their sales people are absolutely ignorant of the problems of the Champion and the piston-style flush valve. I happened to be in HD a couple of weeks ago, looking for replacement parts for a faucet, when I overheard a frustrated customer telling an HD employee about his leaking toilet and not being able to find a replacement seal or flush valve (he was clutching two close-but-no-cigars replacements in his hands). I butted into the conversation and told the customer and HD employee that a phone call to American Standard would solve the issue. I informed both of them there was a free replacement flapper style flush valve being provided by American Standard... and I mentioned this forum, my source of the replacement flush valve information! I do wonder if the HD employee informed others in his department of this issue...fat chance!

And, shame on American Standard for not recalling all those pesky piston-style valves, providing information to the vendors, like HD, about this issue.
American business at its finest = beware, customer!

Redwood
02-26-2008, 06:15 AM
Per the vendors selling the Champion (like Home Depot = HD): their sales people are absolutely ignorant of the problems of the Champion and the piston-style flush valve.

That sounds like the biggest load of stuff that ever fell out from under a bulls tail!

Big Box knows full well about the defective junk they sell! They see the returns! They deal with the angry customers! They are trained to be nice and tell the customer to call the manufacturers @ 1-800.... They have done their job Big Box is off the hook! The customer is in limbo with junk product in their home! And big box is still pushing piggies out the door!

Ya should have seen the guy at Lowes when I asked him if the Zurn PEX fittings they were still selling were the ones covered under the Class Action Lawsuit! He couldn't get away from me fast enough!

JHZR2
07-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Hello,

I have a champion from around 2010. It doesn't have the piston, but does indeed leak so I hear the water coming to fill it back.

Can anyone advise the best approach for the flap style champion to fix leaking? Are parts the same uncommon issue like the piston?

Thanks to this site and the great review and info areas, we know what to ask for next time, which will be soon as we are redoing another bathroom...

Thanks!

wjcandee
07-07-2012, 11:19 PM
Hello,

I have a champion from around 2010. It doesn't have the piston, but does indeed leak so I hear the water coming to fill it back.

Can anyone advise the best approach for the flap style champion to fix leaking? Are parts the same uncommon issue like the piston?

Thanks to this site and the great review and info areas, we know what to ask for next time, which will be soon as we are redoing another bathroom...

Thanks!

Korky makes a Champion 4 flush valve seal: http://korky.com/Flapper450BP.html Korky is the company that invented the flapper, makes one of the fill valves used on Toto toilets, and makes factory-OEM replacement parts for Toto fill valves and Fits Toto flappers, all manufactured here in the USA. A number of the pros on here recommend their fill valve and flapper for Toto toilets, and at least one highly-respected pro here says that he always uses a Korky flapper when replacing a flapper on a generic toilet.

Check the instructions here:http://korky.com/PDF/450BP.pdf and see if it fits the system in your tank (i.e. compare tank number as shown in the instructions).

Looks like a pretty simple fix (although not as simple as just replacing a flapper...)

If you can't find it at your local hardware store (my local ACE carries it), HD has it in the stores (and only in the store) for $5.98 but uses part number 450CM (rather than 450BP). Same product, but likely packaged differently. (BP likely stands for "Blister Pack") You can use the HD online tool here to check if your local store has it: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202183804/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=korky&storeId=10051 (Click the "Pick Up In Store Button" and input your zip code to see the purported local stock level.)

You can also get the original AS seal online. Part No. 7301111-0070A. If it were I, however, I would get the Korky product because experience tells me their stuff is going to be much-higher-quality than the AS product, which they just get someone to bang out at the cheapest possible price.

PS I notice that one of the HD product reviews recommends that you leave the old seal in and put this one on top. I wouldn't do that. This seal should replace, not supplement, the original seal.

JHZR2
07-08-2012, 06:47 AM
Wow, wjcandee, thanks so very much for that info. Will pick up one of those to do the fix.

Thanks very much!

wjcandee
07-08-2012, 08:28 AM
Wow, wjcandee, thanks so very much for that info. Will pick up one of those to do the fix.

Thanks very much!

My pleasure!! So that others may benefit, let us know how it works out!

PS The Lowe's web site was offline when I looked last night. They have it as well, online and in-store, 450PK this time for the model number, and a little cheaper than HD. There were more product reviews on that site. The ones that installed the thing correctly all liked it. (One guy said he put aside an hour to fix the toilet, installed this kit, and wondered what to do with the other 55 minutes.) The ones that didn't put it in right, naturally, all said it leaked and that AS sucked.

One review might be helpful to you. The guy said the trick was to get the "sandwich" nice and tight (as did one HD review which recommended that you tighten till you hear 2 clicks). He recommended cradling the bottom piece of the sandwich in one hand, putting the new seal in, making sure it was lined up evenly [duh], and then being sure to get the top nut nice and tight, after which the thing works great.

And -- of course -- when you reinstall, make sure that your trip lever (flush handle) arm hasn't moved inadvertently and that you are still pulling straight up.

Also, the Korky flush valve seal comes with a 5-year warranty, so if it starts leaking before then, provided you aren't using an in-tank bowl cleaner, they will send you a new one. They have really nice, helpful, American phone people to answer your call. (I called them last week when I misplaced a little metal clip for the refill hose on a toilet when installing one of their fill valves in place of the non-Korky valve that came with the toilet; they happily sent me another one and it was here in two days by first-class mail.)

maddog
07-09-2012, 08:32 AM
The original blue seal on the Champion flush valve developed blisters and began to leak in less than a year. I replaced it with the red one from Korky (bought it at Lowes) and it has been leak-free for about 2 years.

16784

JHZR2
08-29-2012, 09:28 PM
Well, work has been hectic and I've been traveling a lot. My home repairs amounted to the replacement of a through wall AC which took a lot of time. Finally I've replaced that gasket.

My symptoms were intermittent leaking (hearing the toilet water fill cycle) and a hard time getting a good flush (have to push the handle hard and hold it hard, in order to get any good flow.

So I went to HD to buy the seal. Of course my Champion 4 has a tank number different from any listed on the container, but the seal looked identical so I went with it.

I'll say that the blue OE seal looked brand new and had no signs of wear, blisters, grooves, etc.

The first step is to get the black nut out, which means disconnecting the chain from the handle (cotter pin and a connecting pin is all it takes), and then loosen it. There is a bump on the lid that creates a "locked" position for the wings on the nut. You need to overcome one of them to be able to really loosen it. Then it's easy.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/70F54855-E2C8-41FB-87DF-C2C7CD4EF2ED-1680-0000019794C23AAB.jpg

My old seal was ok, though it did feel a little harder than the new one.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/436F8A7F-3AF5-44A1-BBD6-BB891E459A72-1680-00000197A143EF8B.jpg

So I installed the new one:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/4F838E0A-495C-437D-9E66-041EF19F3138-1680-00000197A94DC9EB.jpg

Then lubed up the o ring on the black nut so it turned easy. I used krytox grease.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/11568F86-A92B-4DB1-8387-5990CF406246-1680-00000197B29A2477.jpg

JHZR2
08-29-2012, 09:28 PM
Then put the flap on and tightened it with the black nut. The nut can be really hard to get real tight. Getting it to click a few tines, requires some good force, and one of the little tabs that iDisk in there broke off when I tightened it too much.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/9928B939-7CA1-47D3-91AB-E05943C4C919-1680-00000197BEE439B9.jpg

So it flushes well, but I did reposition the chain and adjust its length a bit.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/AFA8C6DB-640B-426D-86E7-5646D7085C4E-1680-00000197CAF75B54.jpg

But I noticed after a little while that the toilet was adding water every few seconds. So I removed the assembly, removed and reapplied the new seal, and tightened the nut a few more turns. In fact it took a lot more tightening, but I'm at max point. I think it is holding water, but time will tell if it is slowly leaking.

So that's where I'm at. I assume I got the right part based upon similarity.

Hope this helps!

wjcandee
08-30-2012, 01:07 AM
You have the right seal. There's just one for the new-style Champion flush valve, which you have.

Great photos! You have provided us a nice, clear, how-to guide for replacing the seal, which others will probably review quite a bit.

Sounds like you're in business. One question: does the end of that black refill tube go very far down the overflow riser? I see the clip there, but I can't tell where the end of the tube is; you just want to make sure that the end of that tube is always above the water level in your toilet; otherwise, you can lose some of the tank volume to a siphon through that tube down the overflow riser, sometimes enough to cause the water control (fill valve) to turn on again. Some manufacturers actually daylight the end of the tube, with a little nozzle or clip attached, above the lip of the overflow riser to prevent that. AS still shoves it in the overflow riser, with that clip intended to make sure it doesn't go too far down, but if the tank level is raised high enough, you can get a siphon. Just a question, and an irrelevant one if the spontaneous running/refilling has stopped for good.

Congratulations on a job well done!

PS Love the little ducky (if that's what it is) in the bottom of the first photo.

Keywords for thread: replace Champion 4 flush valve seal accelerator gasket leaking running flapper

JHZR2
08-30-2012, 05:09 AM
Hi!

Yes it is a green rubber duck!

Unfortunately my job is not as good as Id like, while the first few flushes it seems to seal and hold water, we woke up this AM to the toilet pulling water about once every five seconds for about a second.

Your note of the black tube being too far down was a good one, and so I fixed it right away hoping that it was the culprit, but no luck.

So if we sit at the toilet and listen, we continuously hear a slight trickle of water that is slipping by the seal somehow. I have taken the whole thing apart and put it back together twice now. No idea what the issue is. It just leaks.

The red seal looks and feels great, Ive tightened the black nut down to the point where it cannot tighten down onto the rod any further. It almost feels like the flap doesnt go far enough down to have a real tight, good seal, though Im not really sure how to fix this, and besides the water loss, there isnt a real good way to verify that it is really the case. The times Ive stuck my hand down there, it sure feels tight underwater... But when I mess with it with no water in there, I feel like it doesnt sit far enough and tight enough down.

Any suggestions? Im about to go back to the old blue seal, but that isnt a real solution. How annoying, this repair isnt overly complex.

Thanks!

Mikey
08-30-2012, 07:18 AM
Well, you've got 3 possible paths to leak: 1) around the outer perimeter of the red seal, between the seal and the tank; 2) around the red seal - green thingy junction; 3) around the center black connector to the green thingy. Every other toilet I've ever seen has only 1 path, path (1), which is pretty well-proven technology. I can't for the life of me see why someone would introduce 2 additional leakage paths into a simple device like a flapper valve, but they did. Anyway, let's look at the other two paths.

For (3), I see what looks like an o-ring on the black connector piece. O-rings are usually intended to be the sealing part of a connection where they're employed, so I'm wondering if tightening the daylights out of the black connector is hurting more than helping, maybe deforming the green thingy so that the O-ring can't seal properly. I'd try just tightening it finger-tight, if that's practical -- I haven't seen one of these, so don't know how the O-ring actualy makes its seal, or what you're actually tightening when you turn the wing nut.

For (2), How is the seal made between the red seal and the green thingy? It looks like the green thingy is on top, there's a black thingy underneath, and those two things make a sandwich with the red seal. The black center connector in the center just holds them all together. If that's so, you shouldn't need much force to hold that sandwich together -- the seal is really made by the head of water pressing the green thingy onto the red seal, and the red seal onto the tank. A little shifting around of the sandwich layers might enhance the seal, again suggesting a loose fit of the center connector might be better.

For (1), as I mentioned above, the basic flapper seal is pretty well-proven technology. However, in my Totos, the flapper is one-piece, and it just kind of falls into place, and water pressure makes the seal.

Welcome to research.

wjcandee
08-30-2012, 08:59 AM
I wonder whether lubing the o-ring made any difference in terms of leaks.

The basics on this thing are: (1) have chain and trip lever set so it pulls the thing up vertically AND have the right amount of slack so it's not pulling the thing up ever so slightly when you put the lid on [had a toilet that was doing this -- looked like enough slack, then when put lid on it leveled the trip lever by pressing on part of it, leveling trip lever pulled on chain, chain was just taught enough to pull flapper up a smidge] ; (2) have a good sandwich [AS says 2-clicks]; (3) have a good gasket (you have the best one, and the fact that it now is flushing well, even if not sealing well, suggests that changing it was a good idea0.

Let's see how significant your leak is. I would mark the water level with a pencil, turn off the water to the toilet, leave it a few hours or overnight, and see where the water settles to. That is of some significance when evaluating leaks that aren't fixed by changing the seal. Let us know and we'll go from there.

Good luck!

Mikey
08-30-2012, 09:57 AM
I would mark the water level with a pencil, turn off the water to the toilet, leave it a few hours or overnight, and see where the water settles to.

If he's got another toilet to use in the meantime, he could leave it for a looong time and note the water level when it stops leaking - presumably at the level of the flapper somewhere. If there's enough head to support the leak all the way down until the leak path is uncovered, he's got it nailed. I just noticed there's a light blue structure of some kind below the flapper -- maybe there's a leak associated with it. He could eliminate that fairly quickly by turning off the valve, flushing while holding the flapper open, then putting some food coloring in the remaining water and see if it finds its way into the bowl.

wjcandee
08-30-2012, 10:42 AM
If it's refilling every 5 seconds, it isn't going to take overnight for the water to settle. Having worked with a few posters and absorbing the wisdom of these forums, the possibilities are:
(1) leak around seal;
(1a) leak around o-ring;
(2) crack in flush valve, either above the flapper or below;
(3) siphon (eliminated as a possibility here);
(4) crack in toilet (apparently eliminated here);
(5) leak in seal between flush valve and toilet.

The water level test is helpful. We solved a mystery leak in one poster's toilet when we discovered a crack in the overflow riser about 1-1/4" from top of riser. (Homeowner fixed with tape.) Cracks in base of flush valve require removing tank to replace valve and I don't know if this homeowner feels like going through that unless it's absolutely necessary.

One thing I have been curious about as we help these Champion owners with the stupid "accelerator" (NOT) flush valve is whether a 3" Toto flush valve with a flapper (or with the adjustable Korky 3" flapper to get the flush volume just right), might be a good replacement for the "accelerator". If I had a Champion, I would do the experiment myself, just as I did the experiment of replacing the Red Korky flapper in the Toto with the Blue Korky flapper to see how much difference the extra flush volume made. I suspect that the issue would be something to do with the flush valve nut and/or gasket, if there was an issue.

JHZR2
08-30-2012, 02:51 PM
I stopped the water when just the red gasket was covered but not the black thing on top. I could still hear water trickling, so it seems that it is the gasket somehow. These things are pretty foolproof, so I fail to see what I could have done wrong twice... But I going to swap back to the blue one tonight or tomorrow and see...

wjcandee
08-30-2012, 02:55 PM
Doesn't seem like your test precludes a crack in the flush valve base, although that's a less-likely scenario.

One poster on the HD web site suggested putting both seals together; said it solved his leak. I am highly-dubious about that solution, but as long as you're experimenting...

Also might try wiping the lube off the o-ring.

Hope this helps.

JHZR2
08-30-2012, 06:56 PM
it could be, but while there always was a very slow leak that caused a very seldom cycling of the fill valve, it is very fast now that I have the other seal on. Im going to try the double trick, and if it works, I may just go buy two red ones and stack them...

Mikey
08-31-2012, 04:37 AM
To quickly confirm the flush valve base is OK, just hold the valve open and see if the trickle continues after the water level drops below the rim where the red seal seats.

netmouse
08-31-2012, 06:51 AM
....Per the Champion defects: American Standard is replacing the miserable piston-style flush valve with the flapper style, as shown in Terry's photo. It's a world of difference on how the Champion toilet performs...well worth the replacement's hassle of removing the tank, then re-seating it. .......

At the Am Std website, the Champion being sold has a piston-style flush valve.

Meet the ChampionŽ 4:
Elongated Right Height siphon action jetted bowl
EverCleanŽ Surface
Low-consumption (6.0 Lpf/1.6 gpf)
4" piston action Accelerator™ flush valve
12" (305mm) rough-in
2-3/8" fully-glazed trapway
Rim height at 16-1/2" (419mm)
100% factory flush tested
2 bolt caps
Seat not included
10 year warranty

wjcandee
08-31-2012, 08:06 AM
At the Am Std website, the Champion being sold has a piston-style flush valve.

You are correct that that's how they still describe it. The flush valve is a marketing gimmick (the flush hole really isn't 4"; it's 3"). It's there to convince people that there is something special about their flush valve that makes the water go faster or enhances the flush. There isn't -- not more than a 3" valve anyway. Reflects the American approach: try to make a lot of drama about "pushing the stuff down", rather than quietly opening and smoothing the trapway so the stuff just quietly slides out of the bowl with just a little push, like Toto does.

They originally had a "tower" flush valve that went click-clack and looked like a shock-absorber which they called a piston. It was a huge disaster, a leak-o-matic. They tried to improve it but it still was a problem, so they decided to replace it. But they needed something cool and different LOOKING to replace it. And got Fluidmaster to make them the current thing. Since "piston-action" is a meaningless phrase, I guess they can call anything, including this dumb thing, a piston, and I guess they did so to keep the "piston action" marketing material consistent.

Nice catch. To us, the piston (i.e. the old tower flush valve) is history, but to them, the old piston has been replaced with a new piston. Which doesn't look or act like a piston, so go figure.

PS I should add to this that one of the most amusing and dumb things in the latest Consumer Reports article on toilets is their statement that old flapper flush valves are being replaced with modern plastic ones, which should be more reliable. There are so many laughable statements in there I just don't know where to begin. Remember when Consumer Reports actually used scientists to do evaluations? The AS "modern" "plastic" valves have been disasters. At the end of the day, of course, plastic doesn't seal holes, rubber (and its ilk) does. Using more plastic and less rubber doesn't make the thing more reliable. AS learned this when having to agree to replace every tower flush valve ever sold for free, after first trying a modified design which didn't work. What was the big change from the first Tower flush valve to the second? More rubber. Still didn't fix it. What does the "accelerator" have over the Tower? More rubber. And it's still something of a pain to repair. Pretty humorously, AS's toilet fixing web tool (which gives wrong answers to many simple questions) frequently recommends that you just change the whole flush valve. Right. Because changing the seal seems to be a challenging task for many, unlike changing those "old style" flappers.

wjcandee
08-31-2012, 08:08 AM
there seemed to be a lot of earlier issues with the Champion.But the Champion may have most of it resolved.

OR...the quality control still sucks and this new "accelerator" flush valve is misleading and a pain to repair. That said, you are correct that the hugest problem -- with the flush valve -- was fixed. Sort of. Unfortunately, it was done by having every homeowner remove their tank (or pay a plumber to do it) in order to replace one dumb design flush valve with another.

However, many people like these toilets, and many people have these toilets, and many people will need to replace the seals on these toilets.

Thank you though for your nice words about the thread. I think you are correct that it will be useful to many.

JHZR2
09-03-2012, 04:24 AM
So I did some more checking about my leak. It leaked right down to the bottom of the flap. In fact it looked like it was 1/16 below the top of the grey part.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/517CACDC-E116-4DA7-BEA5-41DC232F5AF5-3538-0000046D7D70D3EB.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/440AB3FE-9ECD-4A77-AE0C-2665003DDEF6-3538-0000046D83D65301.jpg

That was after an overnight sit. After a weekend the result was the same.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/JHZR2/House/44502FE2-3625-4CC6-B2E5-2988255E9F95-3538-0000046D89DDC91B.jpg

Last night I doubled up the gasket - put the OE one on first (top) and then the new red one below (bottom, in contact with the grey thing in the tank).

Seems that the double gasket trick works. So I think the red gasket is ever so slightly too thin, causing an insufficient seal.

wjcandee
09-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Huh. Glad I mentioned it. Oddly, lots of folks have fixed it with just the Korky and been very happy. Maybe its a tolerance thing. We will keep it in our bag of tricks for folks who can't fix it with just the Korky.

Greg98
07-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Huh. Glad I mentioned it. Oddly, lots of folks have fixed it with just the Korky and been very happy. Maybe its a tolerance thing. We will keep it in our bag of tricks for folks who can't fix it with just the Korky.

Glad I found this thread - replaced the seal on my AS Champion 4 (I know, I know), but the fill valve still kept firing up after a few minutes. Tried the food coloring and determined the leak was mostly likely at the seal, put the original seal in with the Korky and now I'm good to go. There were a couple of small blisters in the AS seal so I'll probably pick up another Korky and just use two of them.

wjcandee
07-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Great!! Glad we had this thread out there to help you!

And so you know, if you are handy enough to remove and reinstall your tank, and you get fed up with the silly Funnelator flush valve and wish you just had a good ol' flapper, you can! Korky now has a "Large 3" Adjustable Flush Valve Kit", Item No. 5030, which can replace the Toto 3" flush valve if you ever need to, and also is designed to replace both Champion flush valves: the original Tower Flush nightmare, and the silly Funnelator. It even has a picture of them on the box and says "Replaces These". It's a nice-quality plastic flush valve with the unique Korky twist and lock slide-adjustable wide overflow riser and a 3" Korky adjustable flapper. If you're up to it, you just remove the Champion tank (the only thing "4" about the champion is the size of the largest point in the funnel, the hole in the tank is still 3"), remove the old valve, install the new valve, and reinstall the tank. Just a thought for the future. If I had a Champion, I would have already replaced the flush valve.