Backwater valve installation. Please advise

I have a situation in a split level home where the basement sink and the first floor drains have had sewer coming out of it a number of times the past couple of months.

I am thinking of getting a backwater prevention valve installed. Now the question is this:
the plumber I talked to wants to install it in the locations B and C , in the diagram, but I want to install it in the location A.

B and C will not protect my upstairs bathroom at all. My plumber thinks I can live with that as it will only come out of the shower! I dont think I want sewer coming out of the shower.

Is there ANY reason to NOT install it in the location A ?

The next upstream manhole is most probably above the level of the highest sink/tub drain in the house, ie., all the drains are potentially below the manhole level.

Do you have any suggestions about preventing the backflow situation from manifesting itself inside the house ? I read about "sewer poppers" are they effective ? How often is it used ? Is it typically according to code ?

Also I would appreciate it if I can get some leads to backflow valves that are not plain check valves, but something that can be monitored and cleaned out by HO on a regular basis.

Thankyou

you have one additional problem even with your proposed solution - what if the "waste" is backed up to your check valve, and you flush the upstairs toilet - you are still going to get effluent in your basement.
and the fact that makes your problem even scarier is that you have waste coming out the 1st floor when you have "relief" iin the basement -

this one is scarry - get another plumber. I'd recommend calling the utility also. if it is truly "uphill" or too flat, you'll need to pump it - there are a couple of ways.

where are you located?

The issue with Backwater valves , is that they are only to your benefit if the city sewer is backed up ei: very heavy rainfall running into city sanitary system. If you have a local blockage beyond point A, the Backwater valve is really no good to you. Putting the Backwater valves in point B, C, you are only masking the blockage or at the very least, buying time before it actually makes a bigger mess

back water vALVES

that fellow must be lazy ......


from what I see in your diagram it would be the best spot
to install it at point A.......

how deep is the sewer in the yard anyway?????


I have installed a manhole in the yard before and put
the back flow preventer in the pit for easy access....

we have also installed a 4 inch gate valve in line with the
back flow preventer for those "special downpours"
that scares the hell out of you....

the gate valve is good for
inside the home and outside in a manhole

all you go to do is climb down that manhole
and shut off the valve if you are worried about a large flood....

of course this mean no one is useing the bathroom till
you open the flood gates.......again....



inside the home we have installed the back flow device and
used a 5 gallon bucket like a mini-man hole and made the
lid flush with the concrete.....


if you are going to al the trouble I dont understand
why he would not want to do it 100% right instead
of completely half ass the thing in........ too much digging????

especially if he knows exactly where the line is going out the building.......










t

Also I would appreciate it if I can get some leads to backflow valves that are not plain check valves, but something that can be monitored and cleaned out by HO on a regular basis.

Click to expand...

Like everybody else has said A is your best spot.
You really should have some way of getting into the valve for cleaning and or drain cleaning. I have seen a few main drains backed up because the backwater valve had TP caught in it.

> what if the "waste" is backed up to your check valve, and you flush the
> upstairs toilet - you are still going to get effluent in your basement.
> and the fact that makes your problem even scarier is that you have waste > coming out the 1st floor when you have "relief" iin the basement -

I understand that in the situation where there is indeed a backup, the waste from the first floor will show up in the basement. We dont use the basement sink very much and I am going to put a flood alarm in there just in case this happens. It is easier to control our own usage of water and definitely betterethan having the city sewer coming into the house.

The next UPSTREAM manhole is higher up than the house, but the sewer connection itself is downhill of the house.

master plumber mark said:

that fellow must be lazy ......


from what I see in your diagram it would be the best spot
to install it at point A.......

how deep is the sewer in the yard anyway?????


I have installed a manhole in the yard before and put
the back flow preventer in the pit for easy access....

we have also installed a 4 inch gate valve in line with the
back flow preventer for those "special downpours"
that scares the hell out of you....

the gate valve is good for
inside the home and outside in a manhole

all you go to do is climb down that manhole
and shut off the valve if you are worried about a large flood....

of course this mean no one is useing the bathroom till
you open the flood gates.......again....



inside the home we have installed the back flow device and
used a 5 gallon bucket like a mini-man hole and made the
lid flush with the concrete.....


if you are going to al the trouble I dont understand
why he would not want to do it 100% right instead
of completely half ass the thing in........ too much digging????

especially if he knows exactly where the line is going out the building.......










t

Click to expand...

thanks fellas, good to know I am not completely off the mark here WRT the location of A.
A few details : The first cleanout on the first side of A, is a general unfinished room/crawlspace. The pipe is buried under gravel and will not cause any problem for digging. The second cleanout and B and C proposed locations ar ein the furnace room, the basement sink itself is in a finished basement room.

Ideally, I would like to have the backwater valve OUTSIDE the house on the sewer line, for cleaning out purposes or whatever. Location A will do in a pinch because it is in the unfinished crawlspace and is essentially gravel, But still there is a living area above it and I would rather not have any mess in there.

Can you point me to some resources as to what kind of cleaning maintenance a backwater valve requires ? I am going to be interviewing another plumber, but I would like to be armed with much information.

I dont think I need to pump it, the sewer lateral runs down hill to the city sewer line. Just that the next upstream manhole is really high...

almost too easy in the gravel

a back flow valve is usually made out of PVC....

it has 4 bolts on top of it that can be taken off and the

top half of the valve can be accessed......


if you have a gravel crawl space, you really
should just put the valve down there and install a
cleanout on the out-going side of this valve....


the gravel crawl space really makes me wonder what
is wrong with that plumber ......

Its not too deep to dig, ???


this should be rather simple with the valve., a cleanout access and a couple of fernco fittings it should be very easy to do in the gravel crawl......

you can always add that gate valve if you wanted to .............


anything is better than having to bust up a concrete floor when you got perfect accss to it in the crawl space......




] This one will work just fine, the lid comes unscrewed if you
want to inspect it for UFOS

Personally I would install one of these check valves outside the foundation in the yard. http://www.cleancheck.com/

It doubles as an outside cleanout and all servicing is done through a cleanout plug at ground level even though the valve itself can be up to 12' deep below ground level. Drain cleaning machines can not always get into crawlspaces!



The tube length on these 2 pieces is fabricated on site to work at the depth of the line.

OK, I talked to the city plumbing inspector...

and he essentially said the same thing all of you have said. That the A location is the best for the thing, but that if it were him he would install it outside the house. I am thrilled to have a solution and am off to find someone to do it.

Master plumber mark, I could install the backwatervalve in the gravel area as you have suggested. This has the attraction of not having to dig too much, but on the other hand, the cleanout there (the one immediately to the right of A) was snaked and did pour ourt sewage and we have a baby in the bedroom upstairs... to the crawl.
My question to you is this: if I install the BVW in 'A' location do I NEED to install another cleanout on the outside of A. If you notice the picture, I already have two cleanouts on the house die of the 'A' location.

I understand about the snake causing a problem with the check valve, but I have also read that you need to just open the check valve if you are going to snake through it... how hard is that ?

Redwood,
I did have a look at cleancheck, but my local plubing ppl dont seem to know about it. If I can do what you are saying then snaking the cleancheck valve wont damage the valve right ?

Redwood,
I looked at the cleancheck and they say this on their website
Can the Clean Check Extendable backwater valve be used as a
cleanout?

A No! Anytime a sewer snake passes through a backwater valve damage can occur to the valve flapper or the finished seating surface against which the flapper seals.

So I need this AND a cleanout ?

Sorry my bad... I guess they are saying not to. I believe that they may have changed that since I last read their info. Still an excellent check valve and very easy to service. With that revelation I would also install a cleanout. The pipe is nothing compared to digging the hole.

Bwv

A, B, and C, are all wrong locations for the BWV. It should in the line after/before B or C, just to the right of the upstairs connection, as we look at your drawing. You do not have to "protect" the upstairs plumbing unless you expect the city sewer to back up that high, and if it does you might consider trading your house for an ark. With the BWV at that location, the lower plumbing will not back up, as long as the BWV is not fouled which is not always the case, and you do not use any water in them. You would still have the use of the upstairs bathroom without affecting the downstairs one.

put it in the gravel

I like th e back flow device that redwood posted....

that looks like a real good one.....


all you got to do is put a cleanout on the other side
of the back flow and you are good to go..

put a cleanout on both sides of it if you so choose
its no big deal.......

as far as being in the cralw space, if it is easy
to access for service and cleaning out the sewer once
every 15 years, and their is very little dirt to move.......

that would be my choice of where to put it........



worry about the small mess it makes in the gravel
at that time.15 years from now........

usually their is a only very small amount of water involved...

Wherever you put it, make sure there is an end of line clean out in the basement.

one last question...Found a person to do the job, but

I figured I will go with just a regular backwater valve mainly because I am tired of getting vague answers when I ask about a combination valve.

I want to be able to trust my plumber and once I gt vague answers my trust flys out the window.So I figure I will just go with a checkvalve- most seem to be familiar with.
I realize that it will fail eventually or at least require constant monitoring on my part. No problem there, I will set up a schedule to look into that thing every week if necessary!
In my city we need a side sewer permit to do the job in the yard and the company I am thinking of going with does this routinely (very reassuring) BUT they use NDS 495P. I looked it up and it seems like a regulat checkvalve. Nothing fancy.
The only difference I noticed with this and the cleancheck is that there is a small dip at the bottom of the NDS valve whereas the cleancheck does not have it. What is the dip for - is seems that something could settle down there making plapper closing harder. I dont want to force my contractor to use something he is not familiar with if I cannot be certain that it is better. I do like the feature of cleancheck that I can pull the flapper out and examine it, but only if all else is equal...
I also dont know if cleancheck is sold only retail like the mainline product.
Thanks

Q Where can I purchase a Clean Check Extendable backwater valve?

A Clean Check Extendable backwater valves are sold through wholesale distribution, nationwide. Contractors should contact their local wholesale plumbing supplier or water and sewer wholesale supplier to purchase the valve. If your local wholesaler does not currently stock our valve, they need only contact the Clean Check office (866-288-2583) to be established as a distributor.

Homeowners should contact a local plumbing contractor in their area about purchase and installation of the Clean Check Extendable backwater valve.

Click to expand...

As I said this is the only check I install!