These are not vents

[jar546]

Another wonderful plumber. IRC applies.

http://www.remasinspections.com/images/IMG_0309%20copy.jpg

[MG]

hmm - wouldn't the change just be to ditch the sanitary tee's to combos and fix that S trap?

[jar546]

Do ya tink it wood be eezyr to doit rite da furst time?

[hj]

Maybe it is to the IRC code.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2006 IRC Table P3005.1 prohibits san-tees in vertical to horizontal and horizontal to horizontal.
§P3201.5.3 specifically prohibits "S" traps.
They forgot to read chapter 31 "Vents"

Beyond that it looks like there's a belly where the plastic hanger is...

[fidodie]

is that yellow line NG or LP ? does it need to have a pitch to it?

[Cass]

No plumber did that.

I can see the home owner standing in the isle of Low*s saying " why do I need to spend extra money on these Ys and 45s. Ill just use these Ts and save some $$$$. it will do the same thing.

[jar546]

No plumber did that.

Unfortunately this is new construction and it was performed by a "professional" plumber AND approved by the code inspector under the IRC.

Now it needs to be changed and done right by a real plumber

[Herk]

As I understand it, IRC does not require vents for closets. however, that 2" trap is not a closet. Seems as if it would have to require a vent somewhere . . .

Dayum, but I hope we never see IRC here. I thought trailers were bad enough.

[fidodie]

since it is such a mess, that 2" trap is probably a washing machine - making it even more of a violation - may as well pile it on!

[patrick88]

is that yellow line NG or LP ? does it need to have a pitch to it?

That is how that pipe is hung. Could be ward flex or trac pipe or one of the many other brands. I think most inspectors like it a bit tighter. It is ment to be loose so if a nail hits it it will move away.
Just incase you or anybody else didn't know.

[Cass]

Unfortunately this is new construction and it was performed by a "professional" plumber AND approved by the code inspector under the IRC.

Now it needs to be changed and done right by a real plumber

It doesn't matter if the guy was licensed and it was inspected by 100 inspectors...the guy wasn't a plumber.

The inspectors were paid off or never realy looked at it.

[construct30]

I know we live in a government controlled, code crazy world, but I've seen a lot of sanitary tees on their backs in cast and pvc in all kinds of situations and they were never a problem. When I first started out and didn't know any better and we had no inspections and codes to deal with I did it when in a pinch, not saying at all it is right, just saying if I had a house with it plumbed like that and had to pay a plumber, I wouldn't go cutting them out just to make them compliant with the modern code. I would worry about proper venting and things that caused me issues, but not a tee on it's back.

[fidodie]

That is how that pipe is hung. Could be ward flex or trac pipe or one of the many other brands. I think most inspectors like it a bit tighter. It is ment to be loose so if a nail hits it it will move away.
Just incase you or anybody else didn't know.

Thnx! i'm moving an NG dryer this spring....can look it up by name now.

[jar546]

I know we live in a government controlled, code crazy world, but I've seen a lot of sanitary tees on their backs in cast and pvc in all kinds of situations and they were never a problem. When I first started out and didn't know any better and we had no inspections and codes to deal with I did it when in a pinch, not saying at all it is right, just saying if I had a house with it plumbed like that and had to pay a plumber, I wouldn't go cutting them out just to make them compliant with the modern code. I would worry about proper venting and things that caused me issues, but not a tee on it's back.


Ignorance can be bliss. Ignorance cannot, however, be an excuse. They don't manufacture T's to be on their back, that is why they have Y's. So you really need to know what to use, when and why. It is the mark of a professional.

[Lakee911]

So you really need to know what to use, when and why. It is the mark of a professional.


But this is a DIY forum! ;) Doing It Your way

[construct30]

But this is a DIY forum! ;) Doing It Your way


Pros do it correct always? Right. New jobs should always be as close to perfect as you can get them, text book in fact and most can, but a repair or remodel sometimes can't be without changing all the old junk, which when possible should be done, but people don't want an entire replumb to fix a small leak nor do they want to replumb the entire house to fix a few tee's on their back if its worked for 75 years that way.

As an inspector I hope you fail every job done that way, how did it get passed in the first place? I hope it doesn't cost the homeowner.

[Herk]

One of the primary reasons that tees are not supposed to be on their backs is because of drain cleaning. It hasn't always been done with snakes - there are also ridgid flat tapes that don't bend very well. It doesn't matter whether it's cast iron or plastic, it isn't hard to blow the back side of one of those tees out.

And a modern root cutter would make quick work of the backside of a tee.

If the code says that an upper vent terminal is a cleanout, and you drop a snake or tape straight down, there's a good chance you'll destroy the tee.

Here, inspectors have allowed us to have regular 90* elbows at the base of a stack rather than longsweeps. I really don't see anything wrong with that now that we're using plastic. Surely, you wouldn't want a vent 90* in a place like that. But it's smooth enough and round enough to either get a snake through it or for sewage to make the turn.

A tee is a slightly different animal - not only is there NO TURN, but there's no directional movement. Things drop straight to the bottom. (back)

Chances are, you could plumb a house with tees on their backs and you'll never have a problem with them. Chances are you don't even need a bathroom if you have woods near your house. It's so easy to simply do it right in the first place. It's so much better when things not only work, but work well.

[construct30]

Gotta love the woods. I prefer a good old out house.

That's why we have and need inspectors, to keep the pros honest and the DIYer's on the right track. It can even be helpful when trying to convince some home owners to pay for doing it correct.

[Chris75]

is that yellow line NG or LP ? does it need to have a pitch to it?

Why would a gas pipe need pitch? in case you want to drain it? :D

[Mikey]

Herk, thanks for the explanation; I always wondered...

[jar546]

This is new construction and the repair is at the cost of the contractor who did the work. There is a prescriptive code and they failed to follow it.

[construct30]

This is new construction and the repair is at the cost of the contractor who did the work. There is a prescriptive code and they failed to follow it.

Glad to hear the uniform construction code act did its job in PA. Maybe we can be saved.

[gear junkie]

There needs to be cleanout on those far 2-90's. Anything over 135 deg in my neighborhood requires this. I've always been taught the purpose of the combys is to give the waste a direction of flow so it doesn't just "dump" straight down causing a disruption to flow.

[Herk]

There needs to be cleanout on those far 2-90's.

In the UPC, it's only for aggregate horizontal changes of direction. A vertical offset does not count. So those two nineties only change the horizontal direction 90 degrees.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

And I gotta laugh at this jar546,

I love your ability to call out the incorrect plumbers in their work practices. It definitely needs this exposure. You're sending a clear message to this community that pennsylvania is about as messed up as
a soup sandwich when it comes to their tradesmen, their work ethic, their inadequate structuring of government entities in that town you call home.

If inspectors are passing this garbage, and everyone including the people they call themselves plumbers are doing it without regard......


I commend you for bringing these flawed situations of the great state of PA and letting the world know that the circus is running the asylum there...

and you are making a fine dime off the expense of their ignorance.

KUDOS TO YOU DUDE!!!


This thread is better than inhaling pvc glue DAMN

[construct30]

Insulting the entire state of Pennsylvania is low even for you and jar546 lives and works here. There are good and bad here, just like there is in Kentucky, I will not insult the good people of your state, just the one idiot I have before me who loves to prove who and what he is on a daily basis.

[construct30]

I guess I really should apologize to everyone, I have a lot going on right now and I let someone get under my skin that normally wouldn't be able to. Lack of sleep, frustration and stress clouded my judgement. Sorry Terry I will stop with this nonsense.