What's wrong with this installation?

[jar546]

Common mistakes, what are they?
http://www.remasinspections.com/images/MainWaste.jpg

[bigbird]

I'm no plumber, but doesn't the cleanout have to be either vertical or at least slanted up on an angle?
Is the cleanout plug glued in place?
Why are there 2 electrical cables coming through the same opening as the pipe?
Is that reducer in the right place? I would think it should be above the cleanout.
I also see SM blue insulation on the wall (OK) but I don't know if styrofoam along the studs is OK.

[jar546]

The electrical is UF cable going to the septic dose tank.
The cleanout is a common sense mistake but not a code issue.
IRC applies to the 2 defects.
Still looking for answers.

[sjsmithjr]

- 3" cleanout on a 4" line.
- Sanitee on back.

[jar546]

Still have one issue to fix........

[Herk]

Yes, a santee on its back is a no-no. According to the UPC, a 3-1/2" cleanout is the minimum size for a 4" line.

I don't like the reducing coupling, since I'd prefer a full 4" cleanout, and the installer should have thought of that. But we have this thing here about requiring a 4" pipe coming out of the building and many houses do not require the equivalent of 4" pipe based upon fixture units. So it's common to use a reducing coupling before the pipe goes through the foundation.

There's a bit of confusion as to cleanouts since they require a cleanout outside the building and a horizontal pipe less than 5' does not require a cleanout. So, in theory, this cleanout going through the wall doesn't even have to be there, as long as there is one outside the building. I would prefer to have a two-way cleanout in the vertical pipe and a longsweep elbow to this type of setup.

[jar546]

The other item is that the foundation is not sleeved where the drain exits.

[sjsmithjr]

New construction? Where I'm at that wouldn't have been a problem prior to 2007. Now; yes. I still want my secret decoder ring!

-Sam

[hj]

Unless the sleeve was inserted during the concrete pour, it is no more effective than just putting the pipe through the wall, and at least you don't have to try to seal two pipes instead of just one.

[construct30]

In the case of a clean out only with no pipe, why is the sanitary tee on its back so bad? I just had to ask the stupid question. You see it all the time in old plumbing. I've never seen a problem as a result. I agree with the idea of putting it on the verticle so it won't leak, but the straight shot for cleaning purposes is nice.

[jar546]

sanitary Tees can only be on their back for vents only. They are prone to clog. This should have been a wye.

They were not designed to be on their back and the plumbing code (ICC/IRC) would required a wye.

Through the foundation wall requires a sleeve.

[Cass]

Yes , but was it required when that building was built.

If not the problem would be improper / non sealing of the pipe reguardless of the homes age and it would not be a code violation.

[master plumber mark]

Idelally it would have been nicer to see a wye
instead of a tee, but it will work for a few hundred years
just fine.... i see that all the time....


the real problem I see that should have been fixed is the wire going out the side of the slab with no sleeve on it..

or should that wire have been separately sleeved??

that will cause them greif some day .

[got_nailed]

I would say something about the clean out and the reducer.

As far as that wire it looks like dirty yellow romex (spelling). It needs it’s own sleeve of some sort. With out getting a better look at the cable I’m 100% sure that cable is not a direct bury.

I know you said the wires went to the septic tank. Are they for a pump and float system or did you get stuck with an air pump system? You might end up with problems with the other end of those wirers at some point (something to look into). I have found that they skip stuff on one end of something they will skip something on the other end.

[MG]

Idelally it would have been nicer to see a wye
instead of a tee, but it will work for a few hundred years
just fine.... i see that all the time....

The changeover to PVC for our house required removing one just like that tee. CI ones are a bit larger, but there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd think with the vertical drop there from above that it would clear ok.

[jar546]

The bottom line is that is does not comply with the IRC on this newly constructed house. It is therefore a violation and was corrected to comply with the state UCC/IRC.

Whether you think it is OK or not is always an opinion but in this case it clearly violated the prescriptive code as written and enforced. The plumber had to return and do it the right way.

The wire is UF btw

[Lakee911]

sanitary Tees can only be on their back for vents only.

Good, I did one like this this past weekend. :)

[Herk]

We wouldn't do sleeves through the foundation here. Water, bugs, dirt, all would have room to penetrate. What the heck are wires doing going through the foundation?

I do "sleeve" water lines through foundations - usually I drill a hole then use pipe wrap on the poly, which is allowed to be brought inside before transitioning to something else.

[jar546]

Sleeve and seal

[got_nailed]

I always sleeve with 6” PVC run the 4” though it and use silicone about 1” deep on the out side pack it full of fiberglass and fill go with another 1” of silicone.

I did have one home owner ask about it leaking and I told him that it should never leak. I also explained how I did it and he under stood and thought it would be good. I did offer to pull the silicone out on the inside and as much fiberglass as I could and fill it with what ever he wanted but he could not think of a better way.

[construct30]

jar546 how do you like to see the seal?

[markts30]

We use linkseal...
http://www.linkseal.com/wynn04.jpg
Check out this link...
http://www.linkseal.com/atwork.htm

[Redwood]

Link Seal now thats some good stuff right there I don't care where your from.
Git-R-Done!

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Would of been a 4" 45 with a street 45 turned up, 4" cleanout adaptor coming out the front of that.


As far as the sleeve goes?


It was always up to the builder to make sure they would sleeve the footer because the ones I've unfortunately done when it wasn't done are usually a half a day cussing everyone including yourself for doing such a terrible chore.

Hi wall setups the concrete guys would sleeve a 8" piece of 6" pipe, nailed into the wall forms before pouring.

I truly believe water lines should be sleeved as well......will never happen though in my area.

Would make for such a better install all the way around.

That wiring is supposed to be in conduit anywhere below the joists, through the wall whether it is that outdoor romex or not. Bad install including that goofball purple primer.

[construct30]

Bad install including that goofball purple primer.

That goofball purple primer is required by some inspectors to make sure idiot plumbers that think it is unnecessary used it.

Thanks for the link to the sleeve they look great. We are required to sleeve water lines as well and I thought we had to use a sleeve through concrete as well for uf cable, but if the pocono inspector says its not needed then maybe it isn't in PA. The code is state wide, still conduit through concrete is the best way to go.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

That goofball purple primer is required by some inspectors to make sure idiot plumbers that think it is unnecessary used it.

.



Then there must be a lot of idiot plumbers in the area to make that change to the code to enforce such a requirement. Maybe a lot of ferncos above ground as well.


We don't have that problem here in Kentucky, we don't have to be babysitted when installing piping systems.

[construct30]

Then there must be a lot of idiot plumbers in the area to make that change to the code to enforce such a requirement. Maybe a lot of ferncos above ground as well.


We don't have that problem here in Kentucky, we don't have to be babysitted when installing piping systems.

You know I would love to read the book that you wrote, I'm sure you must have one. Anyone that knows everything should have their own book to help us poor unlearned people. How else can we ever learn if intellegent people such as yourself don't share their vast knowledge? OR Are you just a legend in your own mind? Oh when you write that book make sure you add lots of pictures or it will do me no good.

For your readin' pleasure http://www.fernco.com/speccode.asp

Also check this out http://www.fernco.com/NH.asp Fernco is a brand not a single product!!!

Kentucky must be proud to have all the perfect plumbing. Been there seen some horrific sites in construction. Seen some darn nice work too. Sort of like any place you go.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

You know I would love to read the book that you wrote, I'm sure you must have one. Anyone that knows everything should have their own book to help us poor unlearned people. How else can we ever learn if intellegent people such as yourself don't share their vast knowledge? OR Are you just a legend in your own mind? Oh when you write that book make sure you add lots of pictures or it will do me no good.

For your readin' pleasure http://www.fernco.com/speccode.asp

Also check this out http://www.fernco.com/NH.asp Fernco is a brand not a single product!!!

Kentucky must be proud to have all the perfect plumbing. Been there seen some horrific sites in construction. Seen some darn nice work too. Sort of like any place you go.


Wow! Those links sure make me think you're smart now! I guess if I used banded rubber fittings as much as you, I'd be quick to defend as well!

The only book I'm writing is the one where you're the star character, the plot never thickens and I keep dropping hints along the story line that you're not anything more than a hack....or to term lightly, a wannabe plumber.

Otherwise my open-ended statements about ferncos and purple primer wouldn't offend you. See anyone else defending either? No, just you.

Consider me a hard case, I take it as a compliment. I usually don't have any problems with anyone except people that weaken the profession of plumbing, not those who develop it and enhance its quality and reputation.

I can literally count on you to be guarded in your statements at this point.

Me? Nothing will ever change.3869



"sobs, wipes tear away"

[jar546]

Water lines must be sleeved too per IRC too. P2603.4

As far as purple primer is concerned, guess what? Now required under the 2006 IRC. P3003.9.2

It's just as easy to do it right as it is to do it wrong unless you have to do it all over again because you did it wrong the first time.

[construct30]

Water lines must be sleeved too per IRC too. P2603.4

As far as purple primer is concerned, guess what? Now required under the 2006 IRC. P3003.9.2

It's just as easy to do it right as it is to do it wrong unless you have to do it all over again because you did it wrong the first time.

Go figure. The IRC must be written by hacks or maybe they know something rugged don't? I wonder if that should be doesn't,maybe rugged knows.

FYI I haven't used a fernco for going on six hours now. I don't really know when the last time I used a fernco and I do know it was below grade. You know nothing about me or the work I do.

I will say I've never pissed off an inspector and I have a near 100% customer satisfaction.

Thanks for the code, Inspector.

[Herk]

One thing about sleeving - it does make it easier to replace the pipe if necessary.

Most of the new houses I've done have either had crawlers or basements and while I was still doing that work we were forced by inspectors to put cardboard around our stacks on the basement floor. My thought was that it was idiotic - termites and other nasties love rotten cardboard. And the pipes aren't supposed to be able to move up and down that much under the ground. (Good idea to allow them plenty of room to move in the walls.)

[Cookie]

FYI I haven't used a fernco for going on six hours now .

That is pretty funny, you hack, lol.

[seaneys]

As far as purple primer is concerned, guess what? Now required under the 2006 IRC. P3003.9.2

Purple primer is pretty much required in my area. The more that I've worked on my house, the more I've thought of a 'neat' purple primer job as being the sign of a pro.

Once of my neighbors houses was just gutted. I do not see a single drop of purplie primer in the wrong place. The plumber left a beatuful 1/4" band that stands proud of the fitting connection....

Mine look like hacks. No matter how hard I try.

Steve

[plumbingskool]

The other item is that the foundation is not sleeved where the drain exits.

I was just about to say that , and the other things as well,

Got here a bit to late I guess :)

But glad you got your answers!