PF/2 Energizer-actuater valve breaks

[TSHORE]

http://guillens.com/images/PF2/160/PF503.jpg (http://guillens.com/pf2/pf2_Model150.htm)

Our PF/2 is almost 4 yrs old. A month ago the Actuator valve broke, and the company sent us a new one - under the 5-yr parts warranty. Now, one month later, it has broken again - which just lets the water run and the toilet will not flush. Is there something fundamentally wrong with the whole tank unit, that we should be replacing the whole thing?

Thank you.



Former Consumer Reports "Best Buy"
Do they even test toilets before they write their reports?


http://www.terrylove.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2130826

[Terry]

http://guillens.com/images/PF2/160/PF503.jpg (http://guillens.com/pf2/pf2_Model150.htm)
PF/2 Energizer, found in Eljer
Someone emailed me wanting to know about parts for these today.
Since I have never sold one, I didn't know that there was a local place in Seattle, and someone in Florida that had parts.
I did send him back a link to the Flushmate site that has a replacement tank (http://www.flushmate.com/changeout.asp)for the obsolete PF/2 Energizer.

http://www.flushmate.com/images/Tank-View-Sloan-PV.jpg

That wasn't good enough for this dude.
He expected that I would know the cheapest way to fix his cheap toilet.
He didn't call the place he bought if from, one of the home centers I'm sure, he called me.
I know the home centers don't carry parts for these toilets, they just sell them.
I don't have parts for them either. I carry parts for toilets that I do sell however.
I have never recommended this particular toilet, I installed one in my home for a few weeks and that was enough.
If I wanted everything out of the bowl, it took two flushes. The little high speed jet would mutilate the paper and float it back up at me, ha ha! Who thought of that nonsense. This puppy was good at the Consumers Reports way of testing, little rubber sponges and the like, but it was pathetic at flushing that nice soft 1 and 2 ply paper that goes on a roll.
I gave the thing away. The women in the house were begging me to to dump the thing.
I got one call to repair one in downtown Seattle one year, and lucky for me, I was able to find a replacement tank for the fix at that time.

Jim,
Sorry I didn't know who sold the linkage parts for your toilet.
I know it was considered a Consumers Report "Best Buy"
But it has been obsolete for some time now.
It was a true dog, and I wouldn't have wished it on my enemy.
You can find parts for the obsolete PF/2 Energizer Consumers Reports Best Buy here
Somebody liked it though. There are Pit Bull lovers out there too.



The PF/2 Energizer system has been discontinued. Sloan Flushmate offers a changeout kit for more fixtures. The kit contains everything needed to change out the system to Flushmate. Below is the list of OEM tank model numbers and Flushmate part numbers for the changeout kit.
Crane Tank # 3612, FM KIT M-101526-F3CK
Eljer Tank # 141-7000, FM KIT M-101526-F3EK
Peerless Tank # 1, FM KIT M-101526-F3PK

http://guillens.com/pf2/default.htm

and some other links
http://www.chicagofaucets.com/pf2/pf2.php

http://www.eljer.com/products/toilet/pf2troubleshoot.pdf

http://www.flushmate.com/changeout.asp

[Jeff_M]

I have a PF/2 Energizer, model 150-403 in an Eljer 141-700 (actually I have three of these). Two of them have developed a "whining" sound when flushed and one also has weakened flushing. Is there something a home handy-person can do to remedy this (I have the user guide and tools)?

Thanks, Jeff

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/eljer/eljer_pf2_inside_tank.jpg

[Redwood]

Have a look see at this linked thread.
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19458

[jimbo]

No problem. Solution involves about $135 and about an hour.

In my opinion, shame on Eljer for ever putting this off-brand oddball in their toilets, but on the other hand, Eljer is now merged with Crane and American Standard, so you can blame the whole crowd!

[qualityinnrick]

Hi all. I know that this subject is a little bit old, but thought this was an important post.

I manage several hotels. I purchased about 80 of the Eljer PF2 models about 4 years ago. The actuater valve will break. It's not a question of if, but when. I have had to train several maintenance people to replace them when they break. If you hope to find replacement parts...good luck. I have found that the best option is to simply replace the entire assembly inside the tank. I have also run into problems with the supply line. This is a new problem that I have found with about 5 units. But I am guessing that it will run through my entire hotel. The problem it that there are fittings on the supply line that are a type of clamp. They start to leak after a while. They will put water inside the ceramic tank but outside the plastic tank. It doesn't render them unusable, but you can hear water running. I believe that it just goes into the toilet. I've never had a tank over flow. They just get about 2 inches deep. I am thinking about using a worm gear type of clamp to try to replace the old ones. You can get a replacement unit from Gullins for about $120 but who wants to spend that kind of money because a clamp is leaking.

Thanks
Rick

PS. These toilets were not really cheap. After the cost of a seat I spent about $250 each. At 80 units that was quite a bit of money. I consider them to be middle of the road. They did work great when they were new. We have not had to plung a toilet in years. It used to be several a day.

[ron vaughan]

Doe's any one know how to recharge the pf/2 ?

[Redwood]

You replace it with the sloan retro fit unit.

[jadnashua]

Is this a pressure assist toilet? If it no longer works, you'll either need to find the leak and fix that or replace the whole guts, if available. It may end up cheaper to replace the toilet.

A pressure assist toilet gets its pressure from the water supply - you do not do anything to manually recharge it. If it can't hold the pressure, and it tries to work as a gravity flush toilet, it won't work very well at all.

[Redwood]

The PF/2 Energizer has joined the long list of defunct pressure assisted toilet mechanisms.

It seems as if the only one to buy is the Sloan Flushmate.
See the post at this link for parts information...
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showpost.php?p=140167&postcount=2

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/eljer/eljer_pf2_inside_tank.jpg

[Reader Review]

Are there replacement paerts for the pf-2 system? The problem I am having, is the pipes are starting to chatter while the toilet is refilling. I have 4 units, and this problem is only on 2 of the units. They are 4 years old, and I have replaced some parts about every year. Any ideas wy the pipes would chatter? Loose o rings?
Garry

[Redwood]

It may just be a loose washer in the angle stop valve under the left side of the toilet tank...
Make sure it is open all the way...

http://www.watts.com/prod_images/892003.jpg

[spudster]

Terry's opinions aside, the PF-2 has been a reliable unit for ten years in our household. Noisy, yes, but every bit as effective as we would have hoped with its CR best buy rating.

Unfortunately, as qualityinnrick noted, the weak link in the unit is the actuator valve, whose pin snapped off after a decade of service. As is noted in this thread, replacement parts are still available, but harder to find. The actuator is not available separately. You have to buy an entire rebuild kit for $125. Guillens has rebuild kits. We got ours through Locke Plumbing, who like many, suggested a switch to the SLOAN innards.

Rebuilding the PF-2 was a simpler task than fully replacing the entire guts, which, if I am not mistaken would have meant removing the tank in addition to the innards, so we opted for the rebuild. It took less than ten minutes.

As for the suspected leak of the supply line that qualityinnrick mentioned, I found that the problem in our case was actually a small rubber plug in the main plunger for the unit.

The large plunger is part of the rebuild kit and is located in the chamber in the middle of the unit below the hex-bolted lid. The plunger that came in the rebuild kit actually introduced the constant trickle of water from the tank into the bowl. But it was an easy fix once I figured out what was causing the problem.

The large plunger is actually comprised of six parts. 1. Plunger cup 2. Large rubber gasket 3. Plunger shaft 4. Small rubber gasket 5. Small rubber plug 6. Spring

The small rubber plug and spring are located in between the plunger cup and shaft. By unscrewing the shaft from the cup, the rubber plug and spring are accessible. If the small rubber plug is not centered in the small opening at the base of the plunger cup when the shaft is joined with it, water constantly leaks around the plug, drains down into the tank and trickles into the bowl.

So, your goal is to center the small rubber plug in the opening, under the tension of the spring, and screw the shaft into the plunger cup. That should do the trick.

BTW, when you disassemble the cup and shaft, clean the small rubber plug so that more leaks don't develop.

Again, this took less than ten minutes to remedy. I looking forward to another ten years of dependable service from the unit.

[Thepartsguy]

The PF2 is no longer made for a reason. As for parts, WC Tech (makers of PF2s) has shut off all supply of parts to its suppliers and is now just dealing in warranty parts to end users. (till they run out). Sad too, I was making money hand over fist on these parts. I do stock the Flushmate change out for both Crane and Eljer.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/eljer/eljer_pf2_inside_tank.jpg

[aardvark_rich]

I have two PF/2 Power Flush units in Eljer two piece toilets. When they are working, they do the job like no other can - the problem is the flush actuator is under designed. The material used in some soft, flaky, polyethylene or polypropylene. It is not intended to work under the stress it is subjected to by the spring. Every flush actuation forces the small threaded end which connects the valve end and pin back onto the seat and rubber washer until the randomly distributed flakes of poly let go.

I have little cash to waste on waste disposal unit at the moment, so I took my Saturday and decided to earn the $125 for the only available repair/rebuild kit. Here is my (working) solution.

1. remove the actuator valve assembly by unscrewing the actuator from the top "manifold".
2. I assume your valve is already broken, so just reach in and retrieve the valve/pin end unit.
3. Carefully remove the broken treaded end of the actuator stem from the valve/pin unit. Mine required melting a slot for a screwdriver with a soldering iron so I could unscrew the threaded end.
(Caution: the next step requires skill with a hand drill - better to use a lathe, but who has one in their garage?)
4. Drill a hole from the broken end of the actuator shaft all the way through the shaft. Be carefule to align the drill so it goes in the center and stays centered al the way through. The hole needs to be a close fit for a 6/32 screw.
5. Buy a 6/32 x 2" brass screw from the hardware store. The spherical bump on the external end of the actuator should be flattened slightly so the end of the round-head screw approximates the same shape.
6. Buy a small brass threaded insert from the hardware store. The type I used was a brass threaded wood insert with a 6/32 thread. It was the smallest one they had. Carefully screw the insert into the threaded end of the valve end/pin unit. Mine fit perfectly and still had enough space for the pin to move freely.
7.The 6/32 x 2" brass screw should stick out the other end of the actuator shaft. You may need to trim the length by 1/8"- too long and it will not fully engage the valve/pin unit.
8. Put the spring on the actuator valve and insert it into the actuator housing. Insert the actuator valve. Apply enough pressure on the valve for it to stick out of the other end of the housing.
9. Thread the valve/pin housing with the threaded brass insert onto the end of the brass screw end.
10. Carefully tighten the brass screw with a screwdriver and torque lightly.
11. Reattach the actuator valve assembly to the manifold.
12. Flush without fear - this will not break (unless the insert was too small and did not thread into the valve/pin unit correctly).

The parts cost for this fix was under $1.00 - the first time I did it cost me a couple of hours of measurement and adjusting the process. It is simple, once you understand what needs to be done. I saved at least $124.00, and I can say that my inner MacGyver was satisfied...

Aardvark_Rich

[wm paris]

wow i followed what you did and it really worked out good just hope it last..thnx alot aardvark for the good idea..on re using the broken actuator valve on the discontinued pf2 energizer tank model 150-403

[mark402]

So I followed Mr Aardvark's suggestion, but instead of going out for the brass screw and drilling all of the way through, this is what I did...
I used the threaded part of a concrete anchor. I use these when I mount security cameras onto masonry. Anyway, I used his idea of heating a screwdriver tip and letting it melt into the broken off piece. It easily backed out. The threaded anchor that I had was the exact same thread. So all I had to do was carefully and gradually drill out the other side (the other piece). Once it was drilled to the proper size, I tapped it out to so it was threaded. Before I started drilling, I had assembled the broken pieces and measured them so I know what length I was looking for. Now that I was all treaded and tapped on both sides, I simply screwed both pieces onto my threaded rod. I had drilled the depth perfectly so when I snugged it down it was the right length. I put all back together and it has been working for a month flawlessly. You can get a great idea what I did from the picture. My question is, why in the hell couldn't the engineers who designed this thing figure out this simple solution? Now instead of plastic, I have a heavy-duty steel flush actuator!

[smauro]

I just found out if you go to www.pf2parts.com (http://www.pf2parts.com) you can order parts on line. The repair kit which was the only available part is now $212. This is the biggest ripoff I have ever seen. You can know buy the part that breaks for $44. Still a huge ripoff. The fixes above seem to be the most resonable for those of us who can do that kinda stuff. For anyone else I would suggest replacement of your toilet and get away from these power flush models.

http://pf2.tapcogenuinepartscenter.com/

[Reader Review]

Terry,
I purchased three PF2 toilets several years ago. They have been terrible! The mechanisms are fine, but the flushing system doesn't work . The handles fall off constantly. I replaced one not long ago with a TOTO, but am left with two. Now, one of them has broken. The plunger in the top that goes in the side of the gasket has broken and come out of the unit. It looks like you have to buy the entire rebuild kit if you are going to fix that one little piece. The rebuild kit costs $213.00. Is there any other way to repair this toilet?
- Steevun L

[charlottaz]

The PF2 is no longer made for a reason. As for parts, WC Tech (makers of PF2s) has shut off all supply of parts to its suppliers and is now just dealing in warranty parts to end users. (till they run out). Sad too, I was making money hand over fist on these parts. I do stock the Flushmate change out for both Crane and Eljer.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/eljer/eljer_pf2_inside_tank.jpg

I bought a condo that has this toilet but the trip lever (left hand) is missing. The chain and 1 hook is here but it needs 2 hooks. Anywhere to buy these locally or do I need to order online somewhere? Thanks!

[Timothy1960]

PF/2 Energizer Valving Schematics Needed after friend:mad: took it apart and I'm stuck reassembling his mess. I'm having trouble figuring out the inlet side.

[aardvark_rich]

AArdvark_Rich here...I finally decided to give my second PF/2 the heave-ho - note, this is the one with the Factory IMproved Design Flush Valve (with adjustable screw actuator deally) - The valve body would not seal - even after replacing the hold-down screws with "larger diameter" screws and then finally installing brass inserts - it would work for a few days and then start whinning again - I found the Sloan Flushmate retrofit kit on-line for $119 shipped - installed in 20 minutes and provides the delivery service that the effluent treatment plant desires.

Funny thing is, the other toilet is the one I fixed, as detailed in an earlier post (a design dutifully improved by another MacGuyver-type). It still works. Go Figure!

[roverdog]

Aardvark_Rich....,

Thanks for the GREAT solution to this problem!! We've had this toilet for about four years, and for the most part it has been "working" fine (few annoying problems with the handle falling off, and the flush valve "leaking"..., but the pressure assist worked great. Haven't used a plunger in four years).

Anyway, finally the actuator shaft did break, and I wasn't about to spend $124 (or now $200) on a replacement tank, or even $44 for a new valve. I implemented your idea for $1.53 (brass screw and fitting) and so far it is working great!! I did however, have to make one modification to your fix. I had to add a small amount of epoxy to the brass fitting just to seal it. Without that, I was getting a slight pressure leak through the pin and brass fitting, and the tank would never stop "gurgling". Anyway, that did the trick.

Thanks again for saving me a couple hundred bucks!!!!

Roverdog

[blackknife]

I have 2 Elger PF2 toilets. One of them was nothing but trouble starting about 6 months after installation. I had to constantly take out the little red ball, clean it & reinstall it to get a good flush. The other never gave me issues until recently. It started leaking from the water supply stub where the braided supply line connects to. I have removed it, and replaced the inside gasket numerous times, but even after putting teflon tape on the threads and flange it still leaks. I have also replaced my braided supply line, so that's not it. It leaks right where the stub comes out of the bottom of the tank. Also, is it normal for there to be water in the tank? There is usually about an inch of water in it.

Does anyone know where I can get JUST the black supply line/threaded inlet/nut/gasket that can be seen in the RK 150 kit (bottom right corner of pic below)? I don't need anything else from this kit, and I can't see paying so much money for the entire kit. I'll replace the toilet before I do that. $120 seems a bit steep for a couple of gaskets, hose, plastic and cartridge when you can buy a descent new toilet for a few bucks more
http://www.guillens.com/images/PF2/350/PF2RK150.jpg

Thanks,
Jeff

[Oneunder]

Hello folks.
I have a Crane 3612 retrofit with a Flushmate unit and am now in need of a replacement trip lever mechanism.
I called Flushmate in detroit and was told to call American Standard.
I called American Standard and they do not carry the part.
What good is a Flushmate unit if you can't get the tank lever and inside rod?
Does anyone know of a dealer in Canada or the U.S. that may handle these?
Thanks

[Cate]

I know this is an old thread, but I was searching for information about the PF/2 Energizer assisted flush toilet mechanism. We had this toilet for as long as we've lived in our house which is 6 years. I don't know how old the toilet is, because it was there when we bought the house.

Last weekend it literally exploded and flooded the house. We know it exploded because it was in shards, as well as the ceramic lid to the tank was also in shards, and water poured out for hours until it was discovered by our dog walker. (we were out of town, of course!)

Question is: Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? We are working with insurance on the damage, but does anyone know of any recalls or other such incidents?

One thought our contractor had was that the water pressure from the city spiked and that's what caused the mechanism to explode.

[Terry]

Insurance will cover everything except the deductible. It won't pay for the plumbing, just the damage that the plumbing caused.
Has a pressure assist toilet done that before?

Yes.

And that pressure assist manufacturer went out of business years ago.

[Redwood]

I would avoid like the plague any pressure assisted toilet other than the ones that use the Sloan Flushmate system....
I don't care much for them but the track record of every other company that has made one is pitiful in comparison...

The only repair I would do on one is the Sloan Upgrade....
Or, replacement of the toilet with a fine new Toto Toilet...

[BlueHouse]

only the ecoflush will work. The energizer and wdi ecoflush are on the list of fail pressure chambers!

[abutler80]

I recently bought a house with this toilet installed in the second floor bathroom. It leaks when flushed. It looks as though the leak is coming form the rubber seal under the toilet tank itself. I have replaced this seal with one bought from Lowes. It is still leaking, I do not see any cracks or other reasons for the leak. My question is do I need a special seal due to this being a high pressure tank? I was so fed up with it at one point that I purchased a new (regular) tank and installed it. It would not flush at all! So I figure this was the reason that the high pressure one was installed upstairs. Having acquired this property as a foreclosure I am unsure if the toilet ever functioned properly. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[jimbo]

A tank to bowl gasket from the hardware store will probably not work. More power to the tinkerers...but for some of us that is out of the question...REPLACE the energizer module with a retrofit from sloan. They make retrofit Flushmates to fit the major brands which used the PF-2. Just google it.

I have a Sloan Flushmate in my house from 1992. Never any problems. Replaced the supply group once and the cartridge about 3 times in that period.