7 1/8" of fall for my 105' sewer line

am i totally screwed when it comes time for inspection? there's so little fall that i can't even get the whole thing going downhill. it's ridiculous.

this is house-to-street? even 1/8/ft would require 13" or so....

do you exit under slab (basement slab or built-on) or mid-wall (basement?)

and of course where do you live!!!

4" pipe, austin, tx

and the only option for raising/lowering ends would involve cutting a massive section of concrete from the foundation (underneath the shower), or paying thousands to tear up a sidewalk/street and lowering the tap. the pipe very stupidly exits underneath 2 feet of concrete slab. if they just went through the slab, they could have set the blasted thing a good 10" higher.

is there any way to force the city to lower their taps if you can prove that they aren't providing enough fall for my line? do lift pumps look bad when you try to sell a house?

creepyoldguy said:

and the only option for raising/lowering ends would involve cutting a massive section of concrete from the foundation (underneath the shower), or paying thousands to tear up a sidewalk/street and lowering the tap. the pipe very stupidly exits underneath 2 feet of concrete slab. if they just went through the slab, they could have set the blasted thing a good 10" higher.

is there any way to force the city to lower their taps if you can prove that they aren't providing enough fall for my line? do lift pumps look bad when you try to sell a house?

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I'd bust up some slab and do it right and do it now while it's open. The city probably won't lower their tap. If the sewer is in the street they may not let you tear up the street to do so, if it's not they probably can't lower it much more.

Sewer ejector pumps are always a hassle. Sometime it will break.

Anyone have a link to that one here where the guy wanted to bust it up and re do his pump and everyone told him no and he did it anyways? Didn't he post pics?

Jason

creepyoldguy said:

and the only option for raising/lowering ends would involve cutting a massive section of concrete from the foundation (underneath the shower), or paying thousands to tear up a sidewalk/street and lowering the tap. the pipe very stupidly exits underneath 2 feet of concrete slab. if they just went through the slab, they could have set the blasted thing a good 10" higher.

Click to expand...

I guess that is not an option.

creepyoldguy said:

is there any way to force the city to lower their taps if you can prove that they aren't providing enough fall for my line? do lift pumps look bad when you try to sell a house?

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I don't think you have much choice. I have not met many people that would know the difference. They still flush stuff that doesn't belong down drains.

A 4" plastic pipe would probably work at that slope if the pipe is laid perfectly while using instruments to make sure it has no sags. Plastic is used in some municipal sewers. It would require an engineering calculation to verify that it would work, and it would not be my first choice. Any such installation should have good clean-out access.

The person responsible for putting in the pipe should have had the responsiblity for determining the elevation of the connection to the sewer.

If the installation was done under contract on my house I would be looking for a way to extract the cost of fixing it from the contractor responsible for the error. If there are architechtural drawings that show it in the way it was built, then the architect should have "Errors and Omissions" insurance to cover the error.

Assuming that the house is built on a slab with a foundation wall at the edge, and it is not a pre-stressed or post-tensioned construction, it should be possible to bore (core-drill) the foundation wall so the pipe enters just below the slab, if that is enough elevation. Then cut a hole in the slab to intersect where the elbow must be.

That would probably cost less than an ejector pump installation.

If you must put in a pump, then put it outside the house.

As usual ,We have TOO LITTLE info to make any real call. Is this a slab on grade,18" crawl space, 8' basement ? What is the plumbing project ,You are doing? Frost an issue? What slab would be 2 ft. thick? 4"to 6' is normal. Are You
guessing this thickness? How about some pictures? The way it works- The more
information You give Us , The wisest ,code complient fix You'll get!
Please do Your home work, and return ,so We can help. Thank You

toolaholic said:

What slab would be 2 ft. thick? 4

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the footing would be 2 ft thick.

The sewer connection isn't inside your property line? Is it tied into an easement? The connection (lateral) to the city sewer is usually within the property line.

more info than you probably wanted

this is a ridiculous plumbing scenario, and when i give all the info right off the bat it tends to scare people from looking at it... so i am very thankful that this issue has gotten far enough to get the "more info please" request. i'll gladly give all the info you want, and then some...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22391530@N03/2159717528/

first photo you see is where the pipe comes out of the house, roughly 2' under the top of the slab. the toilet sits roughly 5' inside from where the pipe exits the house. not sure what type of concrete foundation this is, and whether or not it is drillable- which is a huge concern of mine as that is what i have always wanted to do to solve the problem, but..... the bathroom sink, shower pipe must also be replaced if i do that, and this might be really tricky. any ideas/links to info on this would be really cool. i think this needs a creative plumber to ponder it. anyway, somebody wanted history so here ya go...

HISTORY:

house built 1959-1962, apparently by morons. no basement, we can't have them in texas for whatever reason. foundation expert suggested a likely plumbing leak under the slab is causing foundation shifting. bought the house 2 years ago and immediately had a line backup. city ran a camera and found a snag in the line halfway through my property, said to dig. i dug and found broken, crappy, uphill going cheap pipes. dug more, found more of the same thing. fixed everything, got it working when the inspector came out and told me i can't bury it until it passes code. called some plumbers, got little bits and pieces of suggestions involving grinder pumps, etc. called the urban league, got a $4000 grant to get the thing fixed, but none of their plumbers would touch it for under $6000- which was BS because they never even looked at it. dug the rest of it out, played with the slope, couldn't get it to flow consistently downhill. some little patch is always going uphill. reinvestigated a lift pump system, but am dissuaded by the idea of something fragile and electrical being involved with my sewer line. shot grades today and found roughly 7" for the whole stupid line, and that's if i rip out a concrete joint that someone else already put in. it's running with 5 1/2" right now. city said they won't lower tap for me, i have to get approval and spend all the money to diy it. i could continue the story of my 2 year nightmare, but this is probably more than enough info to feed on for now.

meanwhile i've had a 4' deep moat surrounding my house for 2 years now, because there is apparently no fixing this problem no matter how much i'm willing to work at it. if one of you comes up with a solution that lets me bury this thing, i'm buying you dinner and drinks and worshipping you forever as the god who let me once again have a civil looking home.

Pumping this is a no brainer. Break that pipe and set your basin right there. The pumps are reliable [get a Zoeller] and even if it breaks, you will have a moat again, but only temporarily. The $4,000 give away would do it with big change left over.

Thanks' for all the info. Where was the city inspector when this was plumbed?
Sounds like funds may be a little tight. Suggest pump 1st. and replace whole lateral to street when You can. Also suggest a 2 cleanouts one,just at house exterior sweeping into house second just after pump heading to street. IMPORTANT! Get the inspector at Your home to approve it ALL up front. also I've had good luck with liberty sewerage pumps.
Have a feeling You can do it fine. GOOD LUCK

creepyoldguy said:

is there any way to force the city to lower their taps if you can prove that they aren't providing enough fall for my line??

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This is not the city's problem. The sewer is what it is. You want to build a house....you figure out how to connect to the city.
You can also forget about trying to blame the city for a faulty inspeciton years ago.....that argument always falls on deaf ears.

Thanks for all the great advice

It's wild when throughout the course of all these professionals, family, and friends looking at this problem and offering suggestions, that a plumbing forum on the internet would provide the best input. Kudos!

So to recap, nobody advises me to drill anymore? Pump's the way to go?

Also, if anyone is still game, there is a 2nd part to this problem:

at some point, whoever owned the house before me converted a car port to another room. they even put a toilet in there. It's jacked up on a pedestal-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22391530@N03/2159695342/in/photostream/

this is where the line comes out. the place they chose to tie this line in to the main was stupid and causes some problems. i'm curious if you are allowed to re-route plumbing lines that were probably not inspected to start out with, from rooms that were probably illegally built, or if that opens up a can of worms. I already put a Y piece in the main line to allow me to tie in at a smarter section.

also, are you allowed to bring pipes out the top of a slab and then build some kind of enclosure so that you can't see any exposed pipes? or does it have to be underground

You could always raise the grade some (make sure surface water still flows away from the house). Is that a downspout tie in to that sanitary sewer? Most places in the country, that's a no-no. Also, if you're very shallow, then you'll want to make sure you have no bellies as you could get freezing in the pipe.

Install the pump on a weekend and do it quick. Dont ask dont tell the county. If the neighbors look, get a big potted tree and set it on the lawn, tell them your landscaping.

Raucina said:

Install the pump on a weekend and do it quick. Dont ask dont tell the county. If the neighbors look, get a big potted tree and set it on the lawn, tell them your landscaping.

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this was my original plan. the inspector only came by once like 2 years ago. i figured they had definitely forgotten about it. i had no sooner put my shovel into the ground for my stealth repair attempt when the neighbors behind me started tearing down their house and building a whole new one, a task that involves lots of inspection. i figure my house, looking like nuclear warfare should surely get the inspector's attention while he's over there. now i'm kinda in no man's land. haven't heard from the city. don't have a solution for fixing this thing. can't get the urban league to return phone calls. can't even get plumbers to look at it. the pipe seems to work fine for now. it's not backing up or anything, but who knows how long that will last. can't live with a 4 ft trench surrounding my house forever.

I'm for bootlegging it. Get it behind You. Good luck