Vermiculite?

I have another challenge with my attic insulation project. There is a pile of what looks like some sort of blown in insulation product in one corner of the attic over the existing batts. I'm wondering if this could be vermiculite. I'd like to remove it so that I can replace the garbage batts underneath, but I've read bad things about it (if it's in fact vermiculite). It doesn't make sense to have one isolated area with this stuff. Any thoughts?

I am not sure of your goals butwhy remove it ? its probably doing a good job and its making up for the batts. there is a lot of emodied energy in the batts so its a waste to throw them away they are still providing you with some insulation value

Lou

I agree with the above.

Tom

I'd like to remove the existing batts because they're full of bat crap, and there are two layers of 3-1/2 inch insulation, foil barrier side up on both. I'm thinking of junking the top layer and then flipping the bottom layer over, assuming it's in good condition. My other concern is the wiring. I've seen evidence of knob and tube wiring, that may have been replaced with new, but I'm not sure. I think I'll only be able to tell by removing the existing insulation. Any thoughts?

The color doesn't look right for vermiculite. Vermiculite is pour-able. It looks like large granular material. If it's in a wall and you cut a hole at the bottom, it will run out like grain would. I would insulate those two exhaust ducts, or you will get alot of condensation running into your fans. They make 4" insulated flex duct. Is that frost on the sheeting boards toward the eaves? If the insulation was just laid in, it probably isn't acting to much of a vapor barrier. You could just knife the paper or foil, then blow in 10-12" of cellulose insulation. That would give you a better job then trying to lay batts. That should give you a R-factor of 40-50, with what is already there.

The stuff looks like kitty litter or SpeedyDri. Maybe someone was trying to dry out the bat guano or collect the water that appears to have come from the roof. The color of those roof boards suggest that they have been wet.

Good thoughts. I never thought that it may be kitty litter. It makes sense, because the previous owners had cats that pissed all over the damn house. Yeah, the boards are damp and frosty, probably because of the inadequate insulation, lack of vapor barrier, and horrible attic ventilation. There really aren't soffit vents, and the four cruddy roof vents are partially plugged with hornet nests. The only other vents are on each of the gables, and a previous owner plugged one by using it as an exit for the vent pipe that is in the picture. I'm so sick of this house, I feel like I'm going to puke.

Guano's Hidden Dangers

I found this and thought you should see this before you try removing this stuff.

With winter coming on, many types of animals look for refuges from the cold. Many times this means human habitats that they intend to stay in through the winter. Along with the mice and bugs, many homes will become a refuge for bats. The conventional wisdom to avoid a wild bat is true- they are susceptible to rabies and can spread it even through a very tiny bite. But after they are gone, the danger remains in your home- but not from rabies.

Bat guano can build up in attics and eaves that have been used by bats, and even if the human occupants of the building are not aware of the dung, they can be harmed by it. After guano has lain around for a couple of years, a fungus can grow in it, releasing spores into the air that cause histoplasmosis in humans. The east and central parts of the U.S. are especially susceptible to the fungus that causes this disease.

Histoplasmosis can cause serious respiratory diseases in humans, causing fever and chest pains. If left untreated, histoplsmosis can turn into a chronic lung disease that resembles tuburculosis. In the very young and the very old, or people who already have cancer, AIDS or other serious illnesses, histoplasmosis can be fatal. Histoplasmosis can also travel from the lungs to the eyes, causing ocular histoplasmosis syndrome, which destroys the central vision (not periphreal). The lung problems can many times be cured with anti-fungal medications, but the ocular disease has no cure.

If bat guano is found in a home or other building, it is important to have it removed as soon as possible by a trained professional. A professional will search for any roosting bats that may be inside, then for any passageways that may be accessible to bats. Any points of entry have to be closed so that the bats do not reappear.

To remove guano, a professional will wear a respirator and dress in protective gear. The guano is usually sprayed with water or a fungicide so that the removal process will not cause the fungus to become airborne. It can then be cleaned up via a specialized vacuum, together with cleaning chemicals, or can be collected manually, or a combination of both.

Yuck. I hate having to remove weird stuff from the attic! That looks like sawdust to me, but just a guess.

You got ventilation under your eaves?

After taking a closer look, it appears to be blown in insulation. Maybe it spilled out when the walls were blown years ago. The guys who put my siding on drilled a bunch of holes in the soffit before they covered it up with vented vinyl soffit, but I don't think that's good enough. I went up there this evening with a respirator, one-piece suit. I pulled up a few pieces of the old insulation. I bagged some of it and saved some for re-use. I'm thoroughly disgusted. We sealed off all of the exits and got rid of the bats a couple of years ago (I hope). I really hope I don't come across any. I understand they can't fly below freezing.

Older house can be balloon framed, so that would make sense. It just overflowed from the stud cavities. (I need to get that done to my house). So, what was it exactly?

You might not come accross live bats, but could find some dead ones. I hope not.

My best guess is that it's just cellulose. While researching insulation I found that you can buy bags of loose fill. I'm thinking that the previous owner was just lazy and instead of adding batts to match in with the rest they just pour bags of loose fill over that area. I think the batts were removed for the bathroom remodel below.

Cellulose is actually a better insulation (although messier) since it blocks air circulation better and will fill better.

Cookie is right about the bats and diseases, a very informative post.

You need a good fire.