Kinetico Repair

[WayneW]

My 15-year old home has a Kinetico Model 30 with a leak. While I have only lived here 10 years, I assume the unit was installed when the house was built.

Four and half years ago, a leak appeared and the company who installed the system said the membrane was cracked, replaced the base, and only charged me for the labor.

A similar leak as reappeared and I again called the service company which now has a new owner. This time, the estimate is $360 for the base and $70 for labor. And a test of the water hardness indicates that the system is only doing half of its job. They suggest replacing the rosin at $229/bag (and I have 2 tanks) plus labor.

Since the total cost is over $1000 for parts, labor, and tax, I need a little advice.

1. I feel comfortable doing the work myself, but it appears that the only place that I can get the part is through the local distributor. Is this correct? Is $360 a "fair" price for a rather simple appearing part?
2. Would a replacement of the rosin improve the ability of the system to soften the water? Can I purchase and replace the rosin myself?
3. The "service rep" offered to replace the current system with a new system at a cost of $3250. I doubt that I will be here for more than two years and there is no way I would accept that deal, but it might be worth investigating a new system. Should I consider this rather than investing $1000 in the current system?

I would appreciate suggestions and comments on any or all of my questions.

Thanks,

Wayne

[cwhyu2]

If invest in a new system you will get your investment back when you sell!The $1000 you spend to have your exsiting system repaired might not last
untill you decide to sell.

[interalian]

I rent a water softener for C$20/mo. The only additional cost is salt, about 10 bags/year.

[cwhyu2]

If you rent the softner is it yours or thers.

[interalian]

If you rent the softner is it yours or thers.

Theirs. The original option: buy it at fixed price or the equivalent total months rental up to that amount can be applied to purchase and it's mine. ~10 years equivalent on a depreciating asset seemed like better use of money than up-front purchase at the time. Any problems with the system and it's repaired free. $20/mo is an easy hit.

[Gary Slusser]

Membrane... a softener doesn't have one, but an RO does.

An RO does not have resin though... softeners do.

If you are handy, or want to be, you can replace the resin in your softener IF you can use common hand tools and you have the desire. A cubic foot of resin is roughly $125 including UPS delivery. It would take you a conservative 1.5 hrs to replace yours.

Yes replacing 15 year old resin is a good idea.

Unless the part you need is a resin tank, you can only get that "membrane" part from Kinetico unless it isn't part of their control valve.

No residential sized softener is worth $3250. Kinetico uses the same tanks and resins as I and other dealers do. You should look at a new softener with a Clack WS-1 control valve. You'd probably pay <$700 delivered and you can't beat the quality.

[Wet_Boots]

For a $1000 repair tab, I wonder why there aren't more Kinetico reps.

[master plumber mark]

you would have to be nuts to even throw a cent into
a 15 year old Kineceto.....

its too old to mess with ,,,,
and the Kineceto is way too overpirced

they are hoseing you ................

Throw that dog out and get yourself a clack..


or if you are only going to be ther e for two years,
simply go out and find a water softener company that LEASES
them for abouit $19 per month...
....


Look at my pretty pics of about 6 of them


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryii/

[hj]

I wouldn't throw $1,000.00 into a new Kinetico. They are overhyped and overpriced, and the only one who has parts or service for them is the Kinetico dealer.

[WayneW]

Thanks for all the quick feedback! The rental path is worth exploring; however I would prefer to own the system. So, let's assume that I want to replace rather than repair my Kinetico system. The plumbing is in place and there is a salt container, but I am not sure exactly what must be replaced.

Does each system have a different set of tanks for the resin or do I just need to replace the control valve. Does the Clack control valve require electrical power (i.e. can I mount the control valve on one of the two Kinetico cylinders)?

Thanks,

Wayne

[Gary Slusser]

You replace the whole thing because using old resin and salt tanks is not worth doing. And you should replace 15 year old resin. Yes Autotrol, Clack, Erie and Fleck control valves all use electric. The Clack WS-1 has a 15' power cord the size of your mouse or telephone cord; it's 12v DC.

[WayneW]

Gary, thanks for your answers. I understand why I should replace the resin, but the resin cylinders and salt container seem to be in very good condition. Besides additional cost, if I replace them, I'll have to dispose of them!

Wayne

[master plumber mark]

You just got to be german or dutch....maybe Finnish??

to want to save that 15 year old unit.......

or worry about the expence of getting rid of
teh old unit.....


of course you could always use those old cylinders
to save your spare change in......


good luck ......either way you go......

[Gary Slusser]

I've rebuilt many softeners and filters over the last 21 years. you may or may not be able to use the resin tanks and brine tank but... you'll spend 70-80% of the price of a new softener, and that is using online prices, and it will take you much longer to cobble together various parts of your stuff into a new softener. and then not have like a safety brine system in the salt tank possibly... You've never done that before and your resin tanks may be too small for the SFR your house requires.

The tanks are regular household waste, and so is resin. So the best decision is to bag up the resin in garbage bags and figure out when to get your garbage guy to take the tanks if you set them out at the curb, or have to pay $10.00 to get it done and get on with life. OR... give the thing away in a free ad in your weekly Shopper newspaper.

[Gary Slusser]

Ah yes, a typo; it's 12v AC.

BTW, while we're correcting things... and this IS a thread about Kinetico, a few of your statements (pasted) below are incorrect and I'll mark them in bold.

Any in italics are leaning over the line by maybe 90% or so or left for clarity of the statement.

My corrections are in between and only done to help you learn so you can help me more where I can't post because I've been banned etc.. BTW, I don't know if I've told you that I really appreciate that help, it saves me untold hours of typing, so thanks.

In terms of absolute salt and water efficiency a twin resin tank softener (such as a Kinetico or a Fleck 9***) will be the most salt and water efficient with a single resin tank softener such as a Fleck 5600SE, 2510SE, and 7000 based unit being second in salt and water efficiency, but not by a lot.

Salt and water efficiency will be exactly the same as long as the same type and volume of resin is used and the salt dose pounds are set the same. And "not by a lot" only happens in a lab, real world there will be no noticeable difference.

Twin resin tank units regenerate exactly when the maximum softening capacity of the resin is depleted giving the most efficient use of the resin

To get the maximum capacity out of the volume of resin you must set the salt at maximum; 15 lbs/cuft. That provides the worst salt efficiency.

while a single tank softener has a reserve calculated in that is often wasted

Many control valves today have variable reserve. That type of control valve sets the reserve based on the average water usage over the last 3 or 4 'tomorrow's' actual water use. Also, all twin tank alternating softeners use capacity to regenerate the other tank, where regular softeners do not use any capacity to regenerate the resin. So to compare we must included that capacity usage because resin doesn't care if it is regenerated with hard or soft water.

That means that the regular softener's reserve capacity that is not used is still left in the bed/softener. The same as when we stop for gas when the tank gauge says a 1/4 tank BUT, the twin tank softener ALWAYS uses the capacity used to regenerate the other tank; otherwise they couldn't regenerate.

and the (my note, meaning the regular softener's) resin's maximum softening capacity is rarely ever totally used so there is some waste.

Again, to get maximum capacity, you must set the salt dose pounds to the maximum pounds for the volume and type of resin used and that produces the worst salt efficiency.

Pretty much any "demand initiated" industry standard softener you buy will be pretty salt and water efficient.

Only if the dealer is really into salt efficiency, most are not and will 'short salt' but not by more than like 25-30% off the maximum of 15 lbs/cuft of resin.

After you have determined the correct size of the softener you require based on the water condition, # of people in the house, SFR of the plumbing,

There's no such thing as the SFR of plumbing. It's the house and the type of fixtures etc. etc.. And then there's still more to SFR.