PDA

View Full Version : Electric Motor Question



Dunbar Plumbing
10-23-2007, 07:39 PM
I have a motor, actually 8 of them that came from Italy. The writing isn't exactly what I know/understand but there are some specifics I can give that are clear.


The motor is wired for 220 1 phase. The cord prongs dictate 220 setup. This motor has a capacitor on the top concealed inside. Here's a link to the product I'm dealing with:

http://www.simmm.com/flash/documents/B1121D.swf


The questions I have,


Can I convert to 110volt, IF I can't, can I use a converter or do they make one that will work off 110 and send juice to this motor without damaging it?

My electrical source to these is mainly going to be fed from power outlets at large functions......and if I bought a welder-generator if that would support 220 feeds.

I can take the top off of this and show the wiring into the motor but there are no tabs for me to switch to 110 lugs. << This makes me sad as this is an unexpected discovery on this recent purchase.


Anyone with this expertise, I'd appreciate it.

jimbo
10-24-2007, 06:31 AM
I think you biggest issue is that quite possibly this is a 50 hz motor, and you should not run that on 60 hz.

By the time you get a step up transformer big enough to handle the watts of this guy, you could just by a US made pump. And by the time you buy a frequency converter, you could have bought a new truck! http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com/

Mikey
10-24-2007, 12:11 PM
You might be able to replace the motors on the pumps somehow, since there are 110V models listed. What with shipping & hassle, dunno if it'd be economical.

alternety
10-24-2007, 12:16 PM
I know you have probably done this but have you checked out the nameplates for the numbers 50 or 60?

480sparky
10-24-2007, 04:42 PM
Italy's electrical standard is 127/220 volts, 50Hz.

Dunbar Plumbing
11-02-2007, 09:57 PM
But with work and getting answers from all the forums I posted, in relation to taking the motor to an electric motor service company and dealing directly with the mfg of the units, I got some answers.


Definitely the questions and responses put me in the right direction to figure out what needed to be done.


Before the electric motor service took the pumps apart, I was told that all I needed was a transformer that does the conversion and gives me the ability to convert to 110 like Jimbo showed in the link.

I bought 2 transformers and they have a good deal of leads to connect.


If anything sounds incorrect or out of line, please chime in.

$55 for the unit and I'll have to do some plastic box setup to mount to these units and make them safe.

I'll now be able to run a 220V motor through a conversion of 110 without materially affecting the longevity of the motor.


In regards to the 50HZ over standard domestic 60HZ,


I was told that the transformer will aid in this situation but not cure it.

They said that running that motor even if it didn't go through the transformer first that the motor through normal use would last for example,

9-3/4 years as opposed to 10 years on the given rule of thumb.

What might be a possibility is that I might have to do this to as much as 30 motors. I'm not complaining as I'm picking these up for a below cost price.

I'll follow up with this and results after I spend some more time with it.

I have a Ace Hardware that just opened up the street and the way they stocked their shelves.....I should be able to get what I need set up this weekend if my phone doesn't ring to work....

hj
11-03-2007, 07:37 AM
You do realize that running them at 115 v. will double the amperage and the transformer will add to that. Eveb the smallest one in the chart will be pushing a 15 amp circuit by the time you are done.

Bob NH
11-03-2007, 08:29 AM
If you look at the table at the link you gave us, you will see the RPM in the leftmost column. For the 50 Hz units it is 2800 RPM; for the 60 Hz units it is 3400 RPM.

You are working with positive displacement pumps. If you increase the speed it will require more power to deliver the increased flow at the same pressure. The 1.9 GPM/50 Hz unit will be pumping about 2.3 GPM at 60 Hz so you would have to reduce the pressure by about 20% to keep the power the same.

If the system depends on delivering the correct flow and pressure, there is nothing you can do with the existing hardware to match that.

You should find someone who knows how the system is supposed to work to figure out if anything can be done. It would probably be cheaper to replace the motor or the pump head, but I expect that the Italian pumps probably have non-NEMA shaft interfaces so it might not be possible to use US standard parts.

jimbo
11-03-2007, 09:21 AM
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Ag2xkvp6SgC&dq=60+hz+operation+of+50+hz+motor&pg=PA154&ots=ME06fsngRV&sig=7Lg8NxXA7esNbctroARimuvAaZc&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3D60%2Bhz%2Boperation%2Bof%2B 50%2Bhz%2Bmotor&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=legacy#PPA154,M1

enosez
11-04-2007, 04:27 AM
It will be cheaper to do it right the first time. Plus if anything needs replacing, you are not dealing with a a mismatch of components to make it work.

Dunbar Plumbing
11-08-2007, 10:07 PM
You do realize that running them at 115 v. will double the amperage and the transformer will add to that. Eveb the smallest one in the chart will be pushing a 15 amp circuit by the time you are done.


I've been told that won't happen but just to be sure.....I'm buying one of those clamp around testers to see the amp draw on these when I get them together. I'll post the results and praying that isn't the case because if it is....I'm going to have complications.

Dunbar Plumbing
11-08-2007, 10:11 PM
If you look at the table at the link you gave us, you will see the RPM in the leftmost column. For the 50 Hz units it is 2800 RPM; for the 60 Hz units it is 3400 RPM.

You are working with positive displacement pumps. If you increase the speed it will require more power to deliver the increased flow at the same pressure. The 1.9 GPM/50 Hz unit will be pumping about 2.3 GPM at 60 Hz so you would have to reduce the pressure by about 20% to keep the power the same.

If the system depends on delivering the correct flow and pressure, there is nothing you can do with the existing hardware to match that.

You should find someone who knows how the system is supposed to work to figure out if anything can be done. It would probably be cheaper to replace the motor or the pump head, but I expect that the Italian pumps probably have non-NEMA shaft interfaces so it might not be possible to use US standard parts.

The pumps in question are variable pressure so I can limit the pressure coming off the heads.

I took it to an electric motor service to tear it down and figure it out but I got insight from the maker of the fans themselves which led me to the transformers to figure out the situation.

You are correctamundo on the pumps with the special shafts. These pumps came with the assemblies I spoke of.....and I got them at a low-ball price so any money I spend short of $750 a piece.....I'm going to be ahead of the game in the long run.

As I mentioned to hj I'm going to gauge the amperage pulling through the motor once I get one together to operate.

Dunbar Plumbing
11-08-2007, 10:19 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Ag2xkvp6SgC&dq=60+hz+operation+of+50+hz+motor&pg=PA154&ots=ME06fsngRV&sig=7Lg8NxXA7esNbctroARimuvAaZc&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3D60%2Bhz%2Boperation%2Bof%2B 50%2Bhz%2Bmotor&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=legacy#PPA154,M1


I read that and thanks for the link.

I know what I'm up against on this matter so there's a slight chance I use these units specifically for demo use only.....limited time frames and not make a habit of them running constantly for days; its use doesn't call for that.

Maybe 10 hours at one time, tops.


enosez,

I have very little investment in a large expense item so until I find out the results of the transformer use....I can't say that its a bad idea, yet.

I backed away from working on these as I'm running out of funds on this second business and I'm working on the back end of the business instead of the actual inventory.

Here's a picture of what I'm tending to:

PUMPS (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/FAN003.jpg)

I've already in talks with the athletic associations in 3 counties to provide these for the school systems. What is magical about all of this is I'm building flat slot panels on the top so the schools can sell sponsorship/advertising on these whereby they can offset the monies spent leasing them from my company.