View Full Version : Kohler versus Toto
I am remodeling an upstairs bath and need to choose a toilet. I am working with a bath design shop which carries Kohler and Toto. So far, the salesperson has only recommended Kohler and I was about to choose the Highline Comfort Height with the Ingenium flushing technology. But after reading info here, I'm thinking I need to go with Toto, probably Drake. I have 3 boys and I can't tell you how often toilets plug at our house -- ALL THE TIME. Can a Toto Drake really solve this problem?
Also, I've seen comments on here about it not being able to overflow (good for a 2nd floor). Is this true?
Bottom line, can anyone compare Kohler Ingenium flush to the Toto G-max? And what is Sanigloss?
Kohler Ingenium Flush headed for the dump.
10-03-2007, 01:18 AM
I strongly suggest not going with the Highline and spending the extra money and buying the Toto Drake, and I can speak from experience.
My neighbor who lives in a year round home on the other side of the brook across from my summer cabin has a Kohler Highline (it's the ADA version of the Kohler Wellworth) in one of his bathrooms. I have used that toilet a few times and usually found it either with a wad of paper stuck in the drain or a big piece of "you-know-what" lodged in the same place. That toilet would not work for me as I can plug them!!! He also had issues with the flapper not closing so that his pump ran constantly (and his septic was always receiving water).
I have a Toto Drake ADA height model in my second floor bathroom in my condo. I installed it 2 years ago to replace a Kohler Cimarron (also no good -- bad rinse) that I had bought 2 years before that. My Drake to date has not plugged, and in one flush, everything is gone. Mine does not have Sanigloss, so I can't vouch for it. But since I have always kept my toilets clean, I can't see the need for it personally. But others on this forum who have Sanigloss seem to like it.
If you buy the Highline, you will regret it. Insist on the Drake. The piece of mind you will buy with it is well worth (no pun intended) the extra money.
Matt / achutch in Vermont
10-03-2007, 08:31 AM
There's a brand new version of the Drake that uses about 25% less water. Do a search. I've put in 4 Toto toilets, two of them Drakes, and have found them excellent. The others were a Vespin and a Carlyle. One Drake was ADA height, and the other was the 'normal' height.
Sanagloss has some antibacterial properties, and is a smooth glaze that is so smooth, most things won't stick. When it does get dirty (in my experience, less often than without), it is easier to clean - usually just a wipe, no scrubbing.
The only thing I've noticed is (and it happened with the old ones, too) is that with our water (municipal with sometimes higher chlorine levels than I'd like), the flapper valve needs to be replaced every 3-years or so because the chemicals in the water soften it. When that happens, it sometimes gets sucked partly into the seat, and therefore leaks. You can tell it is getting soft without touching by seeing if it is domed up, or the dome is starting to collapse. I try to have one on hand (although they are available at Lowes) so I can replace it when I notice.
10-03-2007, 10:00 AM
Go with the Toto. Kohler is living off of their reputation which they earned years ago when they were on top.
10-05-2007, 07:25 PM
I am a service plumber and I hate anything Kohler related. It's hard to get any kind of replacement parts because of all the different model numbers. :(
10-06-2007, 05:05 AM
The new CUWCC (http://www.cuwcc.org/MapTesting.lasso) MaP ratings from July 2007 list 6 Kohler toilets with a 1000 rating as well as 14 toilets with an 800-850 rating. The best rated Toto toilet, the Drake, got a 900 rating, and then only the Aquia got an 800 rating. Are these ratings no longer accurate?
You can find a condensed version of the ratings here (http://www.cuwcc.org/uploads/product/MaP-10th-Edition-Condensed-073107.pdf).
10-06-2007, 06:20 AM
The Toto Drake model cst744sl has the G-Max flush system-(superior high performance flush). It lists in white for $453.00. The Drake with Sanagloss, (cst744sg) in white lists for $405.00. Both sell at this price minus the seat.
The cst744sg minus the sanigloss lists for $340.00 This model is only available in white.
The cst744sl is available in cotton, colonial white for 453.00. (Sedona Beige, Bone, Gray colors list for $520.00 and Ebony lists for $679.00.
The only Kohler toilet that I have seen that flushes as well is the K3456-U2 Iron works that starts its pricing at $899.00
We purchased 3 Toto (all Drake) toilets and 1 Kohler Memoirs toilet for a remodel last spring. The salesperson at Ferguson informed me of the higher (volume?) rating that the Kohler touts, so I figured I'd go for it in order to have the toilet match our pedestal sink. The cost was about the same.
We've been here 6 months and it's the only toilet we've had to plunge. And we've had to plunge it at least 1x/month. I've now directed the family to use the Toto toilets for serious business, reserving the Kohler for #1-only, guests and display.
Get the Toto. Go for the sanigloss if you can (non-ADA only when we purchased). Also, if you get the soft-close seat, don't sit on top of it with the seat down (like a chair).
TOTO Drake 800 grams by Veritech, Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuzFve6O4k) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuzFve6O4k)