Tightening Wire nuts /nut sizes

[molo]

The back of the wire nut boxes are very confusing, with several numbers. How do you know what wires will fit?
Also, how do you know when the wirenut is tight enough? are you supposed to use a tool or just your hands?

TIA,
Molo

[Verdeboy]

How do you know what wires will fit?
It depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily.


Also, how do you know when the wirenut is tight enough? are you supposed to use a tool or just your hands?
Just hand-tighten them and then wrap some electrical tape around the opening.

[frenchie]

Sparkies - cleanup in aisle three!


I'm not sure about the details, so hopefully a real electrician will swing by. But as far as I know, it's supposed to be pretty tight. Electricians do it by hand, but they really crank on those suckers. Not finger-tight, forearm tight.

Electrical tape over a nut is a nice gesture: it gives fair warning to the next guy.

As for which nut to use, that's what those numbers on the back of the box are for: all the combinations of wires that nut will hold. So many of this size, so many of that size, etc.

Yellows & reds cover most household needs.

[jwelectric]

Sparkies - cleanup in aisle three!


I'm not sure about the details, so hopefully a real electrician will swing by. But as far as I know, it's supposed to be pretty tight. Electricians do it by hand, but they really crank on those suckers. Not finger-tight, forearm tight.

Electrical tape over a nut is a nice gesture: it gives fair warning to the next guy.

As for which nut to use, that's what those numbers on the back of the box are for: all the combinations of wires that nut will hold. So many of this size, so many of that size, etc.

Yellows & reds cover most household needs.

Nicely Put Frinchie

[molo]

1. i've heard the tape was the sign of an amateur

2. There are 20-30 nsets of numbers on the boxes

3. Yes i ususally use red or yellow

4. Is it causing a problem with over-heating if you tighten them to the point that the wires coming into the nut begin to twist?

TIA,
molo

[jadnashua]

No...I like to pull individually on each wire after I get a nut installed to make sure something didn't slip. Probably the worst thing in this situation is a loose connection.

[jwelectric]

1. i've heard the tape was the sign of an amateur No tape is needed if the wire nut is installed propertly

4. Is it causing a problem with over-heating if you tighten them to the point that the wires coming into the nut begin to twist? TIA,
molo I twist the nut until the conductors are twisted at least twice on the outside of the nut

[Verdeboy]

Sparkies - cleanup in aisle three!.
Inside joke?


Not finger-tight, forearm tight..
No wonder I'm not an electrician. I have to use my fingers to tighten the nut. They must have specially designed forearms that grab on to it and really crank it tight. :D

[jwelectric]

They must have specially designed forearms that grab on to it and really crank it tight. :D

http://www.acom-massage.com/forearm_wrist_hand/hand_forearm_inferiorview

As you can see that the electricians forearm has some interesting aspects that are internal to the arm itself :D :D

[frenchie]

Verdeboy -

Inside joke? I thought it was pretty obvious. ;)

Ha-ha on the forearm joke. But when you crank on something really hard with your hands, the forearm muscles come into play... all I know is that, when he's tightening wire nuts, sparkie's elbow moves. He's putting his whole arm into it.

Seriously - if you're going around twisting wire nuts just hand-tight, you're going to get a lot of call-backs for loose connections... if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, the results might be a bit worse than that.


(Side-comment... just so you don't think I'm all Joe T on you) Lesson #1, if you're working outside the law, is to make sure your work is perfect. "As good as most" doesn't cut it, and "good enough" is just out of the question. It has to be better than any pro's. If something goes wrong, a licensed/insured guy's butt is covered, to some extent. But if you're being Harry Tuttle, they're out to get you already. You have no safety net, you can't afford a mistake, you are completely on the hook if something goes wrong. Cover Your Ass, bro... learn up on this stuff.


Molo -

The danger of overheating is if you don't tighten them enough. Loose connections = arcing = fire hazard. As long as you don't go tight enough to damage the wire or the nut (I think this is why they don't use tools to tighten the nuts)... the tighter the better.

And yeah, electrical tape is the mark of an amateur. Not to take cheap shots, but if you're going to leave nuts insufficiently tightened, then it's a good idea, as it does give the next guy fair warning that an amateur's been at this wiring.

[ked]

The connection should be mechanically secure, twisted with pliers, prior to the application of the wire nut. Then finger tight is OK

[Chris75]

The connection should be mechanically secure, twisted with pliers, prior to the application of the wire nut. Then finger tight is OK


Not true, read the directions that come with the wirenut... Pre twisting is not required, but feel free to do so.

[crutch]

i always recommend twisting of solid conductors i.e romex but in commercial uses we use alot of stranded wire and it's not necessary to twist them. for some reason the wn just don't bite as good on solid wire.

[seaneys]

You also have to watch the difference between wing nuts and wire nuts. I like wing nuts much better. You can also get one more 12ga wire in some of the wing nut brands than in the normal wire nuts.

A little trick I have found is to use stranded wire. I have a hard time getting the torque I need to feel confident in tieing 3 or 4 12ga wires if they are solid.

I'm not a pro...

Steve

[Verdeboy]

Seriously - if you're going around twisting wire nuts just hand-tight, you're going to get a lot of call-backs for loose connections... if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, the results might be a bit worse than that..
Haven't had a call-back yet. I think you're splitting hairs a bit. Molo just wanted to know "hand-tight vs tool." Consensus is hand-tight.

(Side-comment... just so you don't think I'm all Joe T on you) Lesson #1, if you're working outside the law, is to make sure your work is perfect. So, you're a GC and an expert on New Mexico law?


("As good as most" doesn't cut it, and "good enough" is just out of the question. It has to be better than any pro's.
Geesh. I guess I better start training for the world wire nut competition...and win...if I'm going to keep installing those light fixtures and receptacles.:D


Cover Your Ass, bro... learn up on this stuff.
Duuuh. That's why I keep posting all of my "rookie questions."


And yeah, electrical tape is the mark of an amateur.
I've seen plenty of wiring done by electricians, where a bit of electrical tape is used to cover the open end of the wire nut. It serves 2 purposes: The first is an insurance measure against wire pull-out. The second is to seal the connection in the unlikely event that water gets in there, from a roof leak, etc...

[frenchie]

These days I'm a caretaker, and a project manager. I used to GC, small-time, pretty much a one-man-show. Before that, I was an unlicensed handyman.

I looked up the NM law; it wasn't hard. I don't need to be a legal expert to understand that, anywhere they have licensing laws, operating outside them makes you the easy scapegoat, for everybody else, if anything goes wrong.


Just because you aren't being called back, doesn't mean someone else isn't being called to troubleshoot your work.


I've never seen an electrician use tape, and I've heard their comments when they see tape on a nut. It's the mark of an amateur. By all means, carry on; it narrows down the troubleshooting process for the guys who come later.

But it offers almost no resistance to pullout (try it: put a wire nut loosely on a splice, tape it, and pull).

And a connection being loosely held together will still arc... will they care that the lights still work as their house burns down?

It definitely won't seal against water (again, try it)! BTW, they make special wire nuts for wet locations. And you should be installing any wire nuts at risk of water, pointing up, so water can't run down into it.

[Old Dog]

It depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily.


Just hand-tighten them and then wrap some electrical tape around the opening.

Hey Eric,you got to expect to catch a little heat from the "Fellas" when you post something thats not a standard practice within a certain trade.The sparkys didn't say you couldn't do it,just that it's a dead giveaway that your not well versed with everyday practice.(some of the stuff sparky's do is kin to a secret handshake between them.)It has been my experience with most Electricians, (because of the potential dangers of their trade) preform "good housekeeping" when it comes to the inside of the boxes.tight wn's,tightening down unused screws on plugs,no tape,right length of wire(DIYer's and inexperienced people almost always cut wires way too short!!)
When they don't see it done this way or here someone who gives contrary info they are gonna jump on you like stink on S***!
Have you ever witnessed an electrician,after trimming out a new house go around with a straight slot and adjust all the screws on plates so they are all straight up?Thats the type of universal attention to detail sparky's bring to their trade whether it's here in Hawaii or on the East coast.
IT's important to know the jargon...no matter what trade your dealing with.
To gain respect you got to show respect.

[seaneys]

The book:
'Wiring a House' by
Rex Caudwell

Has a great section on installing wire nuts.

I actually hadn't read it, but I was surprised to see that he suggests pre-twisting.

Steve

[Verdeboy]

To gain respect you got to show respect.
That's exactly my point, too. It bugs the crap out of me when people put down other people and try to put them in their place, rather than simply sharing knowledge and trying to elevate others to a higher level.

[frenchie]

Fair enough - you keep catching me late at night, when I'm tired...

But "hand-tight" was misleading, and the tape thing's just plain wrong.

I'm not supposed to give you flak when you post a wrong answer? Don't talk out your ass, I won't diss you.

The rest was a friendly warning, even if you don't take it that way.

[Verdeboy]

Fair enough - you keep catching me late at night, when I'm tired...

But "hand-tight" was misleading, and the tape thing's just plain wrong.

I'm not supposed to give you flak when you post a wrong answer? Don't talk out your ass, I won't diss you.

The rest was a friendly warning, even if you don't take it that way.

Expressing an opinion based on one's experience is not "talking out your ass". And all of your unsolicited "warnings" feel very patronizing.

[frenchie]

Verde, I'm honestly not trying to start anything with you. I didn't go tooladdict on ya, did I?

At the same time - if answering questions incorrectly, in a trade you aren't qualified in, isn't talking out your ass - what is it?

As for the rest - sorry if it comes off as condescending. Just trying to get across to you, how much liability risk you're exposing yourself to. But since it's only pissing you off, I'll stop. Cool?

[Verdeboy]

The bottom line is that these poor (and sometimes cheap) people who call me to do odd jobs would never call a professional plumber, electrician, or remodeler. If I don't do the work, they'll get their drunken relative or someone else way less experienced and qualified than me.

In a big city, I'm just a hack handyman. Here in the third world of SW NM, they love my work and the attention to detail I give it. And, as I mentioned before, I know my limitations and won't take on a job that I don't feel comfortable with.

As for being qualified to give advice: You don't need to be a math professor to teach someone how to add and subtract. I like to ask a lot of questions and I also like to respond to posts. Like anyone else, I'm not always right.

Regarding the wire nuts, we can go on and on all day. But you'll never convince me that hand-tightening them and putting on a bit of electrical tape is the wrong way to do it. Just like some plumbers like teflon tape and others prefer pipe dope, there's not always just one exact way to do something. When that happens, you might as well learn how to give the fascist salute.

As for the liability. Well, that's the chance you take when you're just trying to survive. When I was even poorer than I am now, I drove around for a time without any car insurance. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

[jadnashua]

If your wire nut needs tape to be safe, you've either overloaded it, used the wrong size, or your leads are too long. A correctly installed wire nut sized for the wires in use is all you need. If a wire pulls out, you haven't installed it properly. Tape adds nothing to the mixture except more pain when someone needs to go back in and fix it. If it is likley to get damp, there are special wire nuts filled with electrical grease and fingers to help hold it all in place; tape won't last as long or work anywhere near as well.

[Verdeboy]

If your wire nut needs tape to be safe, you've either overloaded it, used the wrong size, or your leads are too long. A correctly installed wire nut sized for the wires in use is all you need. If a wire pulls out, you haven't installed it properly.


If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily.
I just wanted to quote myself to make sure I wasn't going crazy.


Tape adds nothing to the mixture except more pain when someone needs to go back in and fix it.

I started using the tape after I witnessed an electrician using it. After that, I just got into the habit of using it. You're right, JAD, it is a pain to remove, so I think I'll stop using it.:)



If it is likley to get damp, there are special wire nuts filled with electrical grease and fingers to help hold it all in place; tape won't last as long or work anywhere near as well.

So, special wire nuts for those swampcooler pumps that need hard-wiring?

[jadnashua]

Normally, there's a box to protect the wiring, so no, they aren't necessary there.

[frenchie]

The bottom line is that these poor (and sometimes cheap) people who call me to do odd jobs would never call a professional plumber, electrician, or remodeler. If I don't do the work, they'll get their drunken relative or someone else way less experienced and qualified than me.

In a big city, I'm just a hack handyman. Here in the third world of SW NM, they love my work and the attention to detail I give it.

As for the liability. Well, that's the chance you take when you're just trying to survive. When I was even poorer than I am now, I drove around for a time without any car insurance. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

I don't know if you remember, but the first time I posted a response to you, I said something along the lines of, "Not judging you, I understand sometimes you just have to put food on the table".

There's 3rd world in Brooklyn, trust me. We even have the death tolls to make it really authentic. I once re-did an apartments where the landlord was standing out front, selling crack, and paying me cash at the end of the day. Kid got shot on the street out front one afternoon. No joke.

The law doesn't seem very relevant, sometimes.

Except: one of his tenants sued him, got a lien on the house for 75k.

We live the most litigious society in the world. Cover your ass.



And, as I mentioned before, I know my limitations and won't take on a job that I don't feel comfortable with.

That's the key. And I'd like to leave it at that, but then you had to go and add:


you'll never convince me that hand-tightening them and putting on a bit of electrical tape is the wrong way to do it. Just like some plumbers like teflon tape and others prefer pipe dope, there's not always just one exact way to do something. When that happens, you might as well learn how to give the fascist salute.

The rules on electricity might seem fascistic, but electricity is dangerous stuff. A water leak isn't about to kill anyone; a electrical short can burn a house down. And this isn't like teflon vs pipe dope, at all. Loose electrical connections are dangerous. Just a fact. Deal with it.

...Please, at least tell me you pre-twist?

[Verdeboy]

Never have I stated that the little piece of electrical tape was meant to secure a "loose" wire nut connection. Pay attention to the following: The connection must be made properly using the correct method with the correct wire nut. Then if you want to add a piece of electrical tape--like I've seen "real" electricians do--just to make yourself feel better--go ahead. It will not hurt anything. And you will never ever convince me that it will.

BTW, you said you weren't an electrician, Frenchie. That means you aren't "qualified" to give your advice and opinions on this forum either. :p

But, go ahead, anyway. You know a lot, and people can benefit from that knowledge.

[frenchie]

BTW, you said you weren't an electrician, Frenchie. That means you aren't "qualified" to give your advice and opinions on this forum either. :p

That'd why I prefaced my answer with:
I'm not sure about the details, so hopefully a real electrician will swing by. But as far as I know..." and found a thread where they were posting & asked them to swing by here...



See? My ass is covered... ;)

[Chris75]

30 posts on how to install a wire nut?

[SteveW]

30 posts on how to install a wire nut?


Precisely why this is such a good forum! Where else on the web will you find this kind of conversation?

Funny how something that we all tend to take for granted, like the 'proper' use of a wire nut, is actually not a trivial matter at all.

[Chris75]

Precisely why this is such a good forum! Where else on the web will you find this kind of conversation?

Funny how something that we all tend to take for granted, like the 'proper' use of a wire nut, is actually not a trivial matter at all.


Actually, the right way to install a wire nut would be to read the directions on the back of the package.... see, 1 post and done....

[Rancher]

Actually, the right way to install a wire nut would be to read the directions on the back of the package.... see, 1 post and done....Se' Habla Espanol? I'm joining the MAJORITY, and I can't read english.

Rancher

[ked]

I agree with Caudwell --twist the stripped wires with wireman's pliers-go beyond the blurb printed on one manufacturer's wire nut box. I have read the box too. Just like the guys who make electrical DIY movies--they are not electricians!

[sbrn33]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.

[jwelectric]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.


You go big guy---------the only way to do it

[seaneys]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.

I've been wondering about that... Do, do you end up with about 2" of twisted wire on the outside of the wire nut?

[Speedy Petey]

You go big guy---------the only way to do itC'mon now guys. Let's not get carried away. Let's also not get into the same big pre-twisting thing.
That is ONE way to do it. Pre-twisting is the other.

I will say, sbrn33's method is the ONLY proper way to do it without pre-twisting.
The point is the twist the wires. Either ahead of time, or let the wire nut do it.
If you remove the wire nut the wires should look the same in BOTH cases. The point is to NOT leave the wires straight under the wire nut.

Problem is, VERY few "non-twisters" do it properly.

[molo]

The back of the wire nut boxes are very confusing, with several numbers. How do you know what wires will fit?
Also, how do you know when the wirenut is tight enough? are you supposed to use a tool or just your hands?

TIA,
Molo

Could someone please address the wire-nut sizing aspect of the question. The boxes literally have 20-30 options. Some have dashes between numbers, some have slashes. Any ideas?

TIA,
Molo

[Verdeboy]

This is hilarious. After 40 posts, your original question is still not answered to your satisfaction.

As an unqualified Handyman, who has no business even lurking on this electrical forum, I'll stick with the answer I gave you 39 posts ago:

Choosing the correct wire nut depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily. Once you've done a few hundred of them, you get a "feel" for choosing the right one.

BTW, disregard that business about wrapping a bit of electrical tape on the opening of the wirenut. Let them think you're a Pro.;)

[seaneys]

This is hilarious. After 40 posts, your original question is still not answered to your satisfaction.

As an unqualified Handyman, who has no business even lurking on this electrical forum, I'll stick with the answer I gave you 39 posts ago:

Choosing the correct wire nut depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily. Once you've done a few hundred of them, you get a "feel" for choosing the right one.

BTW, disregard that business about wrapping a bit of electrical tape on the opening of the wirenut. Let them think you're a pro.:)

That is a great point..

If the original poster can tell us what he is trying to connect, I'm sure we can talk him through it in the next 50 post.

Steve

[SteveW]

Could someone please address the wire-nut sizing aspect of the question. The boxes literally have 20-30 options. Some have dashes between numbers, some have slashes. Any ideas?

TIA,
Molo


Molo,
Give us an example of one or more of the options on the box and we can walk you through it.

[frenchie]

This is hilarious. After 40 posts, your original question is still not answered to your satisfaction.

As an unqualified Handyman, who has no business even lurking on this electrical forum, I'll stick with the answer I gave you 39 posts ago:

Choosing the correct wire nut depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily. Once you've done a few hundred of them, you get a "feel" for choosing the right one.

Oh, good grief, Verdeboy. If that answered his question, he wouldn't have to ask it again, would he? Since you already posted it 39 posts ago?


Molo -

I haven't looked at the back of a box of wire nuts in ages, but I don't understand... as i recall, they list the approved combinations, pretty straightforward. This is a pic I found on the web, of the back of a box of blue nuts; does it not look like this?

...if not, post a pic or type it out, I'm sure we can work it out in less than 50 posts.

[Verdeboy]

Oh, good grief, Verdeboy. If that answered his question, he wouldn't have to ask it again, would he? Since you already posted it 39 posts ago?

Well, according to that bit of strange logic, your response, that was posted 38 posts ago, must not have answered the question either. And, before you mention that you've since "refined" your answer, I also have. Note the bit about getting a "feel" for the correct nut after you've done a lot of them.;)

BTW, Frenchie, in all seriousness, why can't you just offer advice without trying to put someone else in their place? It's not just me. I think you've actually scared one or two people off of the forum.

[frenchie]

Scary? Me? Are you serious? ... or just trying to make sure we get another 50 posts on this thread? ;)

Seriously, I can't think of anyone, other than you, that I've tried to "put in their place". Maybe I'm missing something? Others feel free to chime in, here... please... even if it means we use 50 posts to answer poor Molo's question, I'd like to know if I need to check myself.

[molo]

I'll get a pic up of the back of the box soon, I asked the owner of the local hardware, and he looked at me with a grin and said, "I never worried about it". That one you posted is close frenchie, but I think I can interpret that one, the boxes in the local store are more confusing. WHAT A THREAD!!

Molo

[frenchie]

Like I said, it's been years, but I do remember boxes that looked more like what you're describing. As I recall, it wasn't too hard to work out what they meant... we'll see when you post a pic, I guess. In the meantime - do I scare you? ;)

[jwelectric]

do I scare you? ;)

click here (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94311&postcount=6)

Only when I see you:D :D

[cwhyu2]

This is to funny!

[Chris75]

Next week were going to talk about how tight a screw has to be....

[SteveW]

I would ask that posters refrain from making disparaging remarks about one another's experience or lack of it.

One of the things that has kept me coming back to this forum, and which differentiates it from many, many others out there, is the friendliness of the exchanges here. To berate someone because they ask a good question, or give an opinion that is different from yours, is uncalled for.

Not a moderator, not an electrician, just a DIY'er asking for a little civility.

[northman]

or maybe I glossed over it.

After pre-twisting the wires, clip the ends off so all the wire are even.

Note: I am not an electrician, just an engineer, so I probably deserve any and all disparaging comments sure to come.

[seaneys]

or maybe I glossed over it.

After pre-twisting the wires, clip the ends off so all the wire are even.

Note: I am not an electrician, just an engineer, so I probably deserve any and all disparaging comments sure to come.

Good point. And prestrip them carefully so that the conductor exposed is almost the same length for each wire.

[frenchie]

Northman - I'm not an electrician, either. That's got nothing to do with it.

...

Molo - does it bother you that we're doing this on your thread? I'm wondering if I should start a new one...

...

SteveW - I have to assume that you're talking to me. I'm sorry if I've ruined the atmosphere for you. This is a really special place. I've lurked here for years, and anytime someone has a plumbing question, I send them here...

Anyways, I basically started posting a lot (checking at least once a day), out of guilt over the Joe T incident. I already knew him from another forum, where I stuck up for him a lot... and I was heartbroken when I heard what he'd done. I also felt pretty guilty. Not just because I'd been sticking up for him previously: because he may have found this place from reading one of my posts over there...

All of which I mention, just to explain that when I say I'm sorry, I mean it.

...

Verde - sorry I came off the way I did. But there is something... I'm not sure this is the right place/time, but I'm going to try to try to explain it.

Your casual attitude, towards how much you don't know about electrical work, makes me nervous. It's like: you don't know enough, to know how little you know; and you seem not to care.

The fact that you do it for hire, so that it's not just yourself who might be at risk, makes me even more nervous. Seeing you give out electrical advice here... same thing.

Your casual attitude about that, offends me.


So... that's where I'm coming from. Not sure where to go with it, but hopefully it explains why I've been acting the way I have.

For the sake of everyone else, I'll try to keep it civil from now on. It would be nice if you met me half-way.

[Verdeboy]

Frenchie,

I'll try to explain this to you:

When I ask a question, I tend to sound more ignorant than I really am. That way, people are more open to giving me information, and I can glean more useful information that way. The more information I can glean the better. If you sound like you already know everything, people tend to ignore you or give you less information. I've mentioned numerous times that I try to glean as much info on a subject as possible before taking on a job and refuse jobs that I don't feel qualified doing. How that translates into a "casual attitude" to you heaven only knows.

I also give advice, but only on subjects that I feel competent in. Occasionally I'll stick my neck out a bit in a subject I'm not that competent in and may feel a little stupid. So what. If you never take a stab at something new, you become stuck and boring.

Keep this in mind, Frenchie, We are all students and we are all teachers. No one knows everything and no one knows nothing.

[Terry]

Well, if you put it that way, put me in for
"Knows more than nothing"

Doesn't really say much, but sounds good.

[molo]

Funny!!!

I'll get a pic soon..... please excuse the interruption of the normally scheduled broadcast..

[frenchie]

Verdeboy...

I'm not sure if something just flew by near my head, or if what I was trying to say flew by yours... but there's still a gap.

If anything, I think it just got bigger.

Isn't the short version of what you just said, "I was lying to you; trust me..."??

[Verdeboy]

Actually, the short answer is, I know how to connect a freakin' wire nut. I don't know how to run a nuclear power plant. Therefore, I give advice on how to connect a wire nut. I don't give advice on how to run the power plant.

Capisce?

[seaneys]

Funny!!!

I'll get a pic soon..... please excuse the interruption of the normally scheduled broadcast..

Pic? I hope you aren't going to replace your beer picture.

[ked]

Just do your own experiment: If you are connecting two wires only, it works most of the time, but not every time, to just shove the the wires into the wire nut. For three or more wires, you need to pre-twist the wires. My advice is to pre-twist ALL wire nut connections EVERY time. The "no need to pre-twist" on the box is a mistake. DIY electrical videos have lots of bad examples and bad advice too. (EC since 1975, college instructor 12 years.)

[jwelectric]

If you are afraid of installing a wire nut or if you think that a little tape would help anything then make you installations like this

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/jwelectric/knuckle.jpg

[frenchie]

That's trippy, Mike, where did you find that?

Eric - I've almost posted a few times, but held off. Pointless to try to communicate until I was out of bickering mode. I've re-read this thread, and the one about the kitchen receptacle, a couple of times. Realized how much you have me all wrong. You keep defending against things I haven't said... I'm not your Typical Defensive Licensed Electrician; I'm not even an electrician; and I'm definitely not a fascist.


http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284604&postcount=10

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=287400&highlight=licensed#post287400

(Read the whole thread if you want, but I don't recommend it to anyone who thinks 30-40 posts is a lot... jokes aside, i think that was a record setter, even for JLC.)


Or maybe this thread will do it better:

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313


So. Once you realize you don't know me, either... try talking to me, instead of that other guy you think I am.

[ked]

Do an experiment. Shove and Twist with 2 wires, then 3 wires, then 4 wires. We did this in our class. You will find out that it fails sometimes with 2 wires, then worse and worse with more wires. Conclusion: Always twist with pliers first. Ignore the slogan on the wire nut box--it is a mistake. Also, those electrical DIY videos are loaded with mistakes-they are entertainment-- not science.

[Chris75]

Do an experiment. Shove and Twist with 2 wires, then 3 wires, then 4 wires. We did this in our class. You will find out that it fails sometimes with 2 wires, then worse and worse with more wires. Conclusion: Always twist with pliers first. Ignore the slogan on the wire nut box--it is a mistake. Also, those electrical videos are loaded with mistakes-they are entertainment-- not science.


If it fails, then you didn't follow the directions... the directions on the box is not a slogan, they are directions on how to use the product... like it or not... they also say that pre-twisting is not required, so if you feel the need to twist, twist away...

[ked]

What part of the directions did myself and the 25 class members not follow?

[Chris75]

What part of the directions did myself and the 25 class members not follow?


I don't know I wasn't there. :) Did the class actually READ any directions?

[cwhyu2]

Split Bolts TAPED?

[Chris75]

Split Bolts TAPED?


Yeh, with 5 rolls of electrical tape...:D

[cwhyu2]

Only way.For #2 wire.

[jwelectric]

Only way.For #2 wire.
Why?


.

[cwhyu2]

You could use crimps,but all need to be insulated some way.
There differert methods depends on your power company.

[Old Dog]

If you are afraid of installing a wire nut or if you think that a little tape would help anything then make you installations like this

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/jwelectric/knuckle.jpg

Must be a time and "material" job!

[Alectrician]

Just hand-tighten them and then wrap some electrical tape around the opening


Gahhhh!!!

Just tighten the crap out of them.

No tape please.

[Livin4Real]

Here's a pic I snapped of a pole in St. Maarten, caribbean when we there earlier this year. Wonder where they got their pointers from? :D , this was one of the better ones we saw.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-4/702601/CaribbeanVacation213copy.jpg

[Bob NH]

Here's a pic I snapped of a pole in St. Maarten, caribbean when we there earlier this year. Wonder where they got their pointers from? :D , this was one of the better ones we saw.

I wonder how many of those taps go through meters?

[jadnashua]

The house I lived in in Amman Jordan had marginal wiring, too. The frig would cause all of the lights to dim as would the stove or dryer. At the time, I used a servo controlled variac on my pc, and it would be running for a significant amount of time as the voltage rose and dropped. Lucky for me, the pc had a pretty wide input range on its ps. UPS devices were not readily available at that time, or I would have used one of those. The connections at the pole were often just twisted wires...and they rarely were insulated making it very dangerous to even think about getting near. At night, it was an interesting light show, and things really went bonkers when it rained (infrequently, luckily).

The codes and inspections we gripe about here mean our infrastructure is much safer, and things work as designed. Some day, the rest of the world will figure that out; some have, and might be considered stricter than ours.

[statjunk]

I read this entire post much to my detriment. LOL.

I've rewired three houses (every wire, switch, fixture etc...) and several other living spaces including garages.

My take on electrical tape on a wire nut is that if you're doing lots of boxes and lots of connections just put tape on the nuts. It doesn't take much time and it prevents the ground wire from possible causing a short by coming into contact with a wire while pushing the wires into the box.

I also pre-twist all my wires. Why? I feel it makes a better connection.

Before I tape a wire nut I pull on each of the wires to make sure they won't come loose. I definetly pull when combining a solid wire with a stranded wire.

I will say I'm not an electrician but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last year while on vacation in Miami.

Tom