Moen Shower Cartridge Removal Tool

[HawkeyeSean]

I found a message that was identical to the problem that I am having. The problem is the reply with the solution was nowhere to be found. The message was from 1998 and they thanked Terry for his help so I know the solution was given. Below is the text of the original post:

Posted by Rick and Christine on May 03, 1998 at 16:21:00:

Terry, Our shower waterflow will not turn fully turn-off. The shower fixture is a Moen with a push/pull handle. we removed the cover and see a brass stem/cartridge, where do we go from here to remove to make repair or replace. The unit has to be over 10 years old. There is a chrome sleeve over the stem.. is the chrome sleeve removable to get to the stem/cartridge.. Thanks for a great service.....
Water turned off in California.
fax 916-939-1834

Can someone either point me to the original answer or generate a new one?

Thanks,
Sean

[Clayton]

I would assume you have a damaged o-ring or debris in your stem and need to replace it.

http://www.moen.com/Consumer/products/installation/moen0133/moen0133.cfm#watch

[HawkeyeSean]

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately now I have a "real" problem. I went to the hardware store and purchased the replacement cartridge and set about removing the old one. First, the plastic tool that they provided was nowhere near up to the task of removing (or in fact even moving) the old cartridge. So I went back to the hardware store and purchased a Moen Cartridge Removal tool. This worked "better" but in the end it broke off both of the brass tabs of the old cartridge and popped out only the core of the cartridge. So what I have now is the brass encasement of the old cartridge still very much in place. Anyone have advice on how to remove this? I am considering going and purchasing an internal pipe wrench and attempting to remove it with that. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks again,
Sean

[jimbo]

There are several techniques for dealing with you problem:

Some cartridge tools ( not the MOEN BRAND tool) have a long stem the same diameter as the inner stem you have removed. On the end is a spring-loaded pin which enters into one of the ports in the cartridge barrel and provides more leverage. It is a one-shot deal: if it fails, you now have the added problem of a tool stuck in your valve.

Many folks successfully use internal pipe wrenches or an easy-out extractor of the appropriate size.

Try spraying into the body some vinegar ; it helps loosen calciium deposits.

[hj]

I have 4 differrent tools for removing a Moen stem and none are the perfect tool for removing every Moen stem. Recently I heard about inserting a short wooden dowel inside the core and then using a 1/2" bolt tap into the unit to "jack" it out. Sounds like it would work, although I would only have to do so if I did not have my other options.

[nards01]

Like Jimbo said once you break off the stem (I did that too) there is another tool shaped like a "T" that you need. It' s basically a handle with a long rod and a spring loaded "catch" on it. You insert it into the brass, outer shaft of the cartridge that is still in there. It has to be maneuvered to catch onto one of the holes in the brass shaft. Once it catches it pulls out. But, depending on how long the cartridge has been in there in may take some mighty tugging!!!! My was in there about 28 years (original from when the house was built) so it was really tough to get out.

[adenwork2]

I hope you have already solved the problem. Years ago, I had the same issue. I had to call Moen and get a live person to help. I found that I had to first put a small wood dowel in. It was just wide enough to fit loosely and maybe 1 inch or so lone. Do not need to be too exact. Then I used a tap to screw into the brass cartridge until the tap bottomed on the back of the fixture. Since the cartidge is a tube with an open end, i kept screwing the tap in and the cartridge was pulled out by the tap. The tap pushes on the dowel which pushes on the back of the fixture without metal to metal contact. Moen did tell me the exact size of dowel and tap I needed.

As I did not own one and it was night time, I had to put the old parts back overnight so that I could turn house water back on. I bought a cheap tap and die set and did the job quickly. I repeated the repair on all the other shower fixtures as they all wore out. The replacement cartridges are plastic and I have had no trouble getting those out.

[sigbigdig]

I just did a tear out of my shower wall due to a leaking 27 year old Moen Cartridge - it looks like a fossil...

I'm getting ahead of myself... first, I determined that the faucet was leaking - not hard - then tried to remove the cartridge - VERY HARD. Broke off the brass ears with a homemade removal tool (fashioned from a deep well 13mm socket that I cut big notches in that fit into the housing). Then, trying to pull it out, I ended up pulling out the guts of the cartridge with a slide hammer - so I was left with the brass housing stuck in there. I haven't sweated joints apart or together before so couldn't replace the faucet... So...

I got on the Internet and looked for some tips to remove the guts and didn't see anything that filled me with confidence - afraid to destroy the whole housing... (except I got excited about the above article describing using a dowel stuck in there and tapping threads)

So... I used a 1/2 inch 20 pitch tap and cut threads into it about an inch and a half or so... went to Lowes and looked in the "C" hardened bolt drawer and got a couple different length hardened bolts and a bunch of washers - took it home and screwed it in and it pulled itself right out. It was beautiful. So, I put some grease on the new one... blew some air into the empty housing to clean out the brass shavings - cleaned it out a little with cloth and slid the new one in and aligned it with the plastic tool. The new one has GREAT action and does not leak - I used the danco brand brass replacement and danco brand grease... and will be using cement backer board for the wall and am reusing the old tiles by soaking them in buckets of soapy water. - Hope this post helps someone out there!!
Have a great day!

[plumber1]

That's a good lesson to learn.
Repair all your faucets wheather you think they need it or not. They do need it. Wheather they are Moen or any other brand.
Those outer o-rings on the cartrige just weld themselves to the housing.
The water quality has an affect on that problem too.

[ExpertPlumberSVC]

Moen economy cartridge puller -- part #P2-05-081 -- Inadequate for task

The tool that my client produced looks just like this tool; which I located online.
However, due to the fact that the hexagonal section of this tool being made of "plastic" (Yes, Can you believe it ?) the tool was incapable of retrieving the remaining brass section of the cartridge because the plastic began to deform, eventually breaking, on the first attempt to use the tool. So now the threaded section of the tool and its spring loaded "catch pin" has lodged itself and cannot be pulled out. This valve body is inside the wall of a mobile home. The valve body is NOT secured and when I pull on it ... Everything moves ! (if I pull too hard on it, I just know that I will damage the tiled section of the resin based shower enclosure)

We have decided to cut into the rear of the shower enclosure wall and to replace the entire valve.

Good Luck in your endeavors, and Thank-You all for your posts.

AJC aka expertplumbersvc@gmail.com

[Terry]

Here is a metal one that Ace Hardware sells.

[master plumber mark]

Posi temps can be mean, mean , mean to get out...

When you get one of those posi-temps
stuck in the socket, you got troubles....

I have had good luck with a pair of vice grips
firmly clamped to the brass shaft of the cartridge....


Then with claw end of a claw hammer, you place the claw between the body of the faucet , or the tile wall
and the vice grips....

then you gently use the leverage of the hammer to pry that nasty cartridge out of the brass body...

warning.....

dont pry so hard with the hammer that you crack the wall tile,

and dont let the vice grips slip off and smack you in the face either..


both of these things sort of defeat the effort of doing it yourself....

[smartfortwoguy]

Oy... right now I am stuck with a horrible mess.

I'm home visiting my mother for the holidays in Southernish Ohio, and yesterday I noticed that the carpet in our hallway was wet. Come to find out, the 11 year old water heater was leaking. My father has recently passed away, so all of these repairs are sort of falling into my lap when I come visit (not that I mind - I like DIY stuff when it isn't threatening to kill or bankrupt us).

That being said, after replacing the water heater, our shower no longer has hot water. I think that the air shooting through the pipes yesterday after we replaced the water heater may have done the seals in on the cartridge. We have really bad calcium deposits in the water here - so it eats the seals out of everything.

I bought a new cartridge this morning (a 1222 - verified for our faucet), but like everyone else here, the old one just won't budge. I have not bought a puller yet (just tried vice grips on the stem/the cheap plastic thing they give you - which broke off one of the plastic ears on the cartridge), but am not above buying one if it will work.

The problem is that it is 2 days before Christmas, we have no other shower in the house, and there is no access to the back of the tub except through the wall of a (somewhat recently) remodeled kitchen with bricked paneling. There is a decent sized hole in the shower surround where one might be able to replace the entire manifold if needed, but I have a feeling the labor costs would be ungodly. I'm kind of afraid of tearing the stem out of this - right now it doesn't leak, it just doesn't give hot water...

I know each situation is unique - but would say, PB blaster/a good puller/prayer and a miracle give me a good chance at not ripping the stem from this thing, but getting the whole cartridge out? CLR and tapping don't work - and I have no idea what a plumber would charge to do this.

Thanks, and sorry for the long winded post - I am just a bit stretched out of my comfort zone with this.

[hj]

"ExpertPlumber" and you had to replace the valve because you could not extract the core? Maybe change your name. I have NEVER had to do that using the right extractor. But I have had to remove that tool from a valve or two for other "expert plumbers", and have replace Moen valves when the customer used a hammer and chisel or a drill bit to remove it.

[Redwood]

Smart For Two Guy, The name of the game is to rotate the old cartridge to break it free then pull it. You may need a real moen cartridge puller for this task.

[SewerRatz]

Once the inside of the cartridge is yanked out and the old jacket is left stuck in. I use a 3/8" wooden dowel rod cut to 1 1/2" long insert it into the hole. Then I run a 5/8 tap into the the jacket as it presses on the dowel rod it starts to pull out the stuck jacket.. This only failed on me once , in that case I ended up replacing the whole valve. Question did you remove the horseshoe shaped clip before trying to pull out the cartridge? You may of said it in the other posts but my eyes are getting hazy at this time of day.

http://www.antonline.com/images/v18/026508963654.jpg

[Redwood]

They are reall tough to remove without taking out the clip.
Kinda like a snowballs chance in hell!

[SewerRatz]

They are reall tough to remove without taking out the clip.
Kinda like a snowballs chance in hell!

Thats a fact. I ran 100's of jobs where the homeowner tried to remove the cartridge without taking out the clip. Even had one where the home owner tried to drill out the cartridge.

[Redwood]

I had several last year where ice removed the cartridge without taking out the clip.

It wasn't pretty!:eek:

[hj]

I have seen a couple where the customer removed the cartridge without taking the clip out. It very nicely removes the front of the faucet body also. They had used the tap and wood peg method to jack it out.

[Scuba_Dave]

My Moen shower/tub valve started leaking quite badly in the past 2 days
I did a quick search & found this forum
There is another forum I use - selfhelpforum, but it didn't have as much info as here. I like to find out what I need to do before replacing something. So the instrauctions here allowed me to pull the old valave & bring it with me to buy the replacement. The old one was stuck a bit, but soon slid out
The instructions with the replacement valve did have decent instructions.

I think the only thing I could add would be to note which side is hot & cold with the old valve installed before removing it. I've been in some houses that for whatever reason the hot & cold were reversed
Also to attacha tube & flush out the lines before installing the new valve

The other thing that I did not know is that without the cold supply on it would not work right? I thought I did something wrong, took it apart - 2x checked. Put it back together - same thing. Re-installed the old valve - same thing. Flushed out the line again, re-installed the new valve. Then started thinking....turned both shut-off valves on
Working great - no more leaks
It's amazing that even a small drip can waste 4-5 gallons a day of water

I have a new steam shower I'll be working on later this year
So I may be back
Thanks for the help

[Bigclange22]

Ok i just scraped enough money to remodel my master bathroom. I gut the thing last year, and have not done anything since then. So I just finished installing new shower pan, and walls, and then I go to put new handle on my moen faucet, and It would not do anything, I could not turn it or pull it, or push it.
So I go to home depot, and they sell me a single handle replacement cartridge, Says it easy to do. I get home, read instructions and go to pull out cartridge, and nothing, So I pull even harder, and I pull the guts of the of cartridge out, but not the brass sleeve. I went back to store bought a Cartridge puller, but it is the type that screws into the screw hole that the shower handle screws into,(which is the guts) So this does absolutly no good, I tried to spin it with the brass tabs, and they both broke off. So I am stuck with water off, and new shower walls all screwed and liquid nailed into place, what are my options now? Does anyone think the other "T" style puller may work? I am so screwed if i cant get this all figured out.

Here is the puller I bought, and did not work. (It just pulled the guts out)
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/Bigclange22/puller2.jpg

Do you think I have a chance with one of these?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/Bigclange22/puller.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/Bigclange22/puller3.jpg

[Bigclange22]

I got the "T" style wrench, and got it in place, it broke the little knob off the end of it. I ended up cutting a hole big enough aound valve to use a mini pipe cutter and cut the 2 water lines and shower line. I then bought a new moen shower package which came with a posi temp rough in. I called around to different plumbing supply houses, and was just about same price for a whole new kit (rough in, shower head, shoer arm, knob & lever, and new plate, I boght a repair plate (which is bigger) to cover where I had to cut hole bigger, But I sweat all th ecopper on rough in then made the connections to the water lines and shower with sharkbite fittings. That way i had no need to put a flame behind wall. The sharkbite fittings are so neat. check them out.
They are like chinese handcuffs. check them out here:
http://www.*********.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?Ntt=plmbing+fitting&Ntk=AllProps&N=10000003+90109+4793&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1

[Scuba_Dave]

So you couldn't get the replacement cartridge out
So you turn around & install the same Mfg's valve?
Think maybe another problem in the future when the cartridge wears out again?

[Redwood]

So you couldn't get the replacement cartridge out
So you turn around & install the same Mfg's valve?
Think maybe another problem in the future when the cartridge wears out again?

Well he has all the tools...:D

[Bigclange22]

So you couldn't get the replacement cartridge out
So you turn around & install the same Mfg's valve?
Think maybe another problem in the future when the cartridge wears out again?


I did install another moen faucet, I figured the last one lasted since 1978 when the house was built. I can only hope that the new one last 30 years.
I more than likely wont be living here, and it will be the next owners problem,,,,lol But now my main bathroom is having faucet problems and its the same moen faucet, however I am only having problems with the hot water not wanting to have any pressure. The cold has alotof pressure, and this just started yesterday. Coulod the cartrige just be clogged on hot water side? Hot works full blast in new shower and in sinks. Will check back, just ranting and raving.....lol

[hj]

And if you had called a competent plumber he would probably have extracted the old cartridge in a matter of minutes. Then you would not have had to buy a new valve, and Sharkbites, Then spend the time to install it. If you had not used Sharkbites you might not have had to make the opening larger. This might have been a case of, "I am going to do it myself if it kills me, or takes all week. And quit hollering that you are thirsty. I will turn the water back on when I am good and ready."

[krow]

Coulod the cartrige just be clogged on hot water side?
I highly doubt it. The pressure balancing spool is stuck, not allowing the pressure to balance out between hot and cold.

To Fix:

For a positemp replace the cartridge

For the moentrol, remove the balancing spool located to the right side of the catridge (about 1" diametre flat screw type). The spool should ossilate back and forth very smooyhly when you shake it like salt shaker. Use silicone grease . If the grease does not work, replace the spool with a new one

[hj]

For a Positemp you can also tap the cartridge on the floor until you can feel the spool sliding back and forth.

[svengally1]

A way to remove the moen no. 1225 cartridge jacket is go to Sears and buy a #5 Screw Extractor. This will cost you about $3.59 plus tax. Before you head to Sears, spray some vinegar and water or some CLR inside and around the cartridge jacket. This will soften the years of calcium bond that has been created. When you return, tap the screw extractor into the hole (gently) just enough for it to bite a little, then take a rachet with a drive to the end of the screw extractor and twist the jacket loose. (This is a much quicker method than the dowel, tap and thread method mentioned.) It only takes about 15 minutes to pop out the jacket and then insert the new cartridge. Make sure you use some water grease (not pertroleum grease) on the new gasket. Slide it in and then make sure you pop the clip in. You might have to test it to make sure you have hot on the left and cold on the right. If not, turn off the water, take out the clip again and twist it around inside then put the clip back in.
You should be good to go!

http://www.terrylove.com/images/moen1225.gif

[zelskid]

When the inner stem part comes out, leaving the core behind, you use the special t shaped tool with the spring loaded pin. As described in someone else's posts, it either works or is stuck in the core. I usually can get it out by rotating before pulling on the t handle. When I pull and can't get it to budge, I have developed a trick. I use a tool called a a tie rod or ball joint removal tool found in auto part stores. It is a rod with a two tine fork at the end that has wedge shaped tines. I fill most of the space from the tee to the body of the valve with open end wrenches. I slide the tool in and tap it down to spread the wrenches apart thereby pulling on the core
Paul zelskid @hotmail.com

http://www.autopart.com/tools/help/catalogs/steering.pdf
Ball joint removal tool

[danielm]

We have 4 Moen 4600 faucets in our house. House built in 1969. One just started to leak and so I took it apart and pulled out the core of the cartridge leaving the sleave behind. I then broke off the ears of the old sleeve trying to pull it out. At that point I was just going to buy a new faucet but I decided to come find a forum which lead me here. SewerRatz post from 12/25/08 above made my day!! I bought a 3/8 dowel rod, cut 1.5 inch piece then used a 1/2 tap (the inexpensive T&D set that I bought did not have a 5/8) and I backed out the old ugly looking sleeve in about 2 minutes. I cleaned out the metal shavings, applied some plumber's grease to the cartridge, inserted it into the faucet and we have running water in that sink again. If any of the other three 4600 cartridges go bad before we remodel then I am set. Thank you very very much!!!! Dan