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Verdeboy
07-18-2007, 08:41 PM
I pulled a toilet to install a new tile floor and the flange is sort of borderline. It has one of those red outer rings that apparently was never anchored into the cement floor, since it still spins freely. The inside part of the flange is fine, but this red ring is very corroded and the bolts will probably pull out eventually (if not this time).

Is the best way to repair this to cut out this outer ring and replace it with the same? If I do that, I'll have to cut the new ring in half to get it to fit under the lip of the inner part of the flange. Or should I leave it alone and try using a couple of those "spanner flange" repair kits?

Do they sell that red ring where it is hinged, so you don't have to cut it in half?

Basement_Lurker
07-18-2007, 09:18 PM
Since you have a concrete subfloor, I would just leave the existing setup as is and just try to repair it, otherwise I'm pretty sure you'd have to bust up the concrete to install a new flange. I would just position the ring to the proper place and use some tapcons to anchor it; and if the existing screw holes were trashed, I'd just drill new ones in the flange. Then, since you are installing tile and raising the floor height anyways, I would use either an oatey flange repair kit, or just a flange extension spacer ring. Both of which solves your height problem and the toilet bolt problem.

Verdeboy
07-18-2007, 09:57 PM
I don't have a height problem because the tile is vinyl. The ring needs to be replaced soon. I was wondering if I need to cut it out and replace it with a new ring or use a spanner flange.

master plumber mark
07-19-2007, 03:43 AM
if you want to get yourself into tons of
trouble go ahead and cut that ring off that
plastic flange embedded in concrete.....

you will totally screw your self so badly if you do....


go out and get two fernco spanner repair
flanges..... they should be able to slide
under the old metal flange rings you want to cut out.....

now here is what you got to do....

simply cut the ring on the toilet only where the
bolt has to slide into under the metal.....

put the bolt into the repair flange then

wrestle the bolt and repair flange under the old
metal where you made the small cut
and line it up in place ...
screw down a bolt to tighten up the whole thing..

it will last 40 years.
------------------------------------------------------------------

another approach is to take the fernco repair flange and
cut the inner side out enough just to get the bolt
to snap into place....

put the bolt down into the old flange
and then slide the fernco under the flange and
get the bolt through and under the small spacer
you cut out


either way will is better than what you propose to do.

Verdeboy
07-19-2007, 08:35 AM
Thanks, Mark.

I've used those spanner flange kits before.

I was hoping that they made a ring that opens up so you could just cut out the old one and replace it with the same thing and then bolt the new one down.

briggss1
12-19-2008, 08:52 AM
:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Would the Raven #BFR7900 repair flange work if you tear out the old corroded ring? If not, and this is still asking for trouble, then I didn't understand some of the recommendations:


go out and get two fernco spanner repair
flanges..... they should be able to slide
under the old metal flange rings you want to cut out.....



I have the exact same problem, pretty much identical. What I don't understand is how to slide the spanner ring under the old corroded metal ring. Its snug against the floor. If you don't cut out the other ring, how can the spanner slide underneath it?


simply cut the ring on the toilet only where the
bolt has to slide into under the metal.....


Are you talking about the flange ring's holes where the 2 bolts secure it to the floor?

I still don't know how to wrestle the fernco repair under the other metal ring if that ring is snug up against the floor, do I need to bend it up some with a screwdriver or prybar?


screw down a bolt to tighten up the whole thing..


Screw down a couple of tapcos into the repair flange, correct?

-------------
Steven

Verdeboy
12-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Try prying up the flange a bit and pounding the spanner in with a hammer.

master plumber mark
12-19-2008, 11:58 AM
VERDY_BOY

I assume you got yourself out of trobles
with that nasty little toilet flange????

Verdeboy
12-19-2008, 12:10 PM
That was a loooong time ago, but I'm sure it went well. :D

Redwood
12-19-2008, 04:20 PM
That Raven Products #BFR7900 repair flange is the way to go in this siuation.

Oatey sells the same item #42777 Moss Bay Replacement Flange.

These 2 piece stainless steel flanges completely take the place of the rusted out flange on PVC and ABS flanges including clamping onto the pipe.

http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/Photo/42777MossBay.jpg

briggss1
12-19-2008, 09:40 PM
I ended up using that. I pryed up the old one a bit and slid the new stainless ring underneath. Pryed both up a bit to give my self some wiggle room and dropped the bolts through the new stainless one. Drilled out the old anchor bolt holes large enough to drop a couple of Tapcons through and secured it to the floor. Worked real good. Thanks for the help!

briggss1
12-19-2008, 09:41 PM
Oops, here's a picture.:rolleyes:

Redwood
12-19-2008, 10:39 PM
That doesn't look like nice new stainless...:cool:

hj
12-20-2008, 02:16 PM
Where is the stainless. That just looks like new bolts in the old flange. And from the looks of the tile line, they don't even appear to be in line with each other and parallel to the wall.

Verdeboy
12-20-2008, 02:20 PM
I'm guessing the stainless is there, but it is completely hidden by the old flange. Is that right?

Probedude
12-20-2008, 03:13 PM
I'm guessing the stainless is there, but it is completely hidden by the old flange. Is that right?



I pryed up the old one a bit and slid the new stainless ring underneath.

yep, you can see it on the left side where the bolt is. You can also see the Tapcons he mentioned when he secured the new stainless ring under the old flange.

Briggs, I was at an Ace hardware today and in their plumbing section they had a stainless flange that was 2 piece also to do the same thing - I think it was made by Harris. It was completely flat though, without the raised section where the bolt slides into.

Was just googling to find it and came across this product also. I know your job is done, but google "The Clam Replacement Ring"

briggss1
12-20-2008, 10:09 PM
Sorry, been out all day. I drove the stainless under the old ring like Master Plumber Mark advised. It's there. The anchor bolts are within 1/8" of each other off of the rear wall. I think the picture makes it look a little off center, but its OK.

How high does the flange need to be above the floor plane? Right now its pretty much flush.

master plumber mark
12-21-2008, 08:29 AM
I am wondering if you mis-understood me....

are the new bolts you installed going through the
fernco repair flanges that were put under that ring???

the idea was to cut that old flange at the thin bolt holes
and then slide the new fernco flanges under the old flange with the bolts already inserted in the fernco flanges




but if it works , then it works..

here is what I was talking about doing....








http://www.fernco.com/img/products/plumbing/residential/res-fix-a-flange-main.jpg

master plumber mark
12-21-2008, 10:10 AM
That Raven Products #BFR7900 repair flange is the way to go in this siuation.

Oatey sells the same item #42777 Moss Bay Replacement Flange.

These 2 piece stainless steel flanges completely take the place of the rusted out flange on PVC and ABS flanges including clamping onto the pipe.

http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/Photo/42777MossBay.jpg


REDWOOD..
I have never seen these before , they look like that they would do a great job ..have you used many of them??

I guess you have to totally cut away the old ring, which sort of scares me to fool with...

I guess as long as you have a good solid floor to bolt it back down into ...


but personally I think that I would rather let sleeping dogs lie..
and not touch that old flange any more than I had to.

Redwood
12-21-2008, 01:28 PM
REDWOOD..
I have never seen these before , they look like that they would do a great job ..have you used many of them??

I guess you have to totally cut away the old ring, which sort of scares me to fool with...

I guess as long as you have a good solid floor to bolt it back down into ...


but personally I think that I would rather let sleeping dogs lie..
and not touch that old flange any more than I had to.

Yep I use them all the time.

You completely remove the old flange ring and its 2 pieces slip around the pipe and even lock into the groove on the flange that the old rusted ring rode in. just screw it down and you're good to go. You essentially turn an old rusted out pvc/abs flange into a new stainless steel ringed one.

I love em!

They go for about $10.
Have no fear cutting of the old ring!
These make it cake!

hj
12-22-2008, 09:33 AM
A repair under the old flange still relies on it for security. EVENTUALLY it will fail along with the repair made. The two piece repair flange eliminates the old rusted flange completely.

briggss1
12-23-2008, 06:54 PM
am wondering if you mis-understood me....

are the new bolts you installed going through the
fernco repair flanges that were put under that ring???



Yep, I slipped it right under the old ring. I pryed up the stainless ring and put the new bolts through that and then drilled out the old anchor bolt holes to install the flange to the slab.

Redwood
03-02-2009, 08:27 PM
Yes, completely remove the old steel ring and the replacement ring locks into the groove in the plastic part of the flange locking it in place.