great way to clean cast iron sewer lines and more

[harveymasons]

As an avid reader for years on this forum I'd like to give back to it by posting a great way I came up with to clean out clogged or backup up sewer lines, this application can also be used on smaller 2 or 3 inch lines as well. There has been a wealth of info on these forums and I hope I can contribute to it w/ the following post...


As a landlord/home owner sometimes you get to spend your Saturday doing fun things like jetting out your sewer line!! It seems I have a slight belly in my lateral (pipe running from my house out to my city sewer line) @ about 23 feet in. Unfortunately the only way to remedy this is to replace the line at a cost upwards of 10k. I don't plan on living here long enough to warrant that kind of investment right now so every couple of months I jet out my main sewer line to make sure it stays clear and free of clogs.Preventative maintenance goes along way! If you own a pressure washer you can do this relatively easily.Otherwise to have the pros come in and do it it will cost you anywhere from 800-1200 bucks for the same job! All you need is a decent pressure washer capable of at least 2500 psi and around 3 gpm.(the more the merrier) That is the biggest expense. If you own this already you are golden. All you need to do is buy a special jetter nozzle for around 30 bucks, 50 or 100 feet of sewer jetting hose depending on length needed, and lastly a ball valve to start and stop the flow of water because you won't be using the wand in this application. Just make sure the ball valve can handle high pressure! With these parts you have conveniently turned your ordinary pressure washer into a lean mean sewer jetting machine for a fraction of the price of buying one!!
This job is definitely a 2 man job as my pressure washer stays outside and I run the hose in my basement into my main sewer line. The ball valve is near the pressure washer so it is smart to have someone near the machine to turn it on once everything is ok and you have control of the jetter hose in the sewer line.I generally start the pressure washer then run to my sewer line and give a signal to my helper (usually my wonderful wife - she is a goodf sport) to turn on the water flow. Once this is turned on you will feel a tremendous amount of pressure in the hose and if everything is set up correctly you will feel the hose take off into the sewer line with a fury not to be reckoned with!! You just need to hold it lightly and maintain control of it.This is all due to the special nozzle I mentioned earlier that is on the end of the hose. This sewer jetting nozzle sprays various streams of water backwards and forwards at various angles. The backward jets serve two purposes: 1 to clean and scrub the walls of your sewer line(after 50 years of poo and sewage believe me those walls really can use a good cleaning, and 2 to propel it forward at a high velocity. The forward jets just break away and blockages that may be obstructing the pipe itself. Similar to what a snake will do but but at a much higher and efficient level. The beauty (if there is any lol) of sewer jetting are the backward jets the really scrub the pipe walls and move the hose deep into the pipe to clean where no cleaner or snake has gone before!! With my 100 foot hose I have actually gone in so far that I Was actually jetting out my city main line!! My run from my clean out to my city main is ~ 48 feet and when I measured how far I was in I Was in over 60 ft OOPS!!! Maybe I should send them a bill!!
After jetting your sewer line you can bring it pretty close to like new condition as far as flow and diameter. I have seen pipes with a 3 inch diameter only flowing @ about 20% due to 80% blockage especially those galvanized steel lines, those are the worst! My main sewer line is cast iron which is probably what you want if you are jetting and will last the longest. A word of caution, if you happen to have orangeburg piping which is basically clay pipe used in older houses built before 1920 DO NOT SEWER JET your line, you run the high risk of damaging and or breaking your pipe.
Now that I taught you how to sewer jet I want to also say that I am not in any way shape or form a pro at this. I am just a landlord who figured out a great way to keep my pipe clean and free of clogs. Saftey is of the utmost importance here and the use of these machines can cause very serious injury and or death if one is not careful remember...... SAFTEY FIRST!!! Happy sewer jetting!!!

[hj]

You never have to worry about damaging Orangburg pipe because that has already happened many years ago.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

As a landlord belly in my lateral (pipe running from my house out to my city sewer line) @ about 23 feet in. Unfortunately the only way to remedy this is to replace the line at a cost upwards of 10k. I don't plan on living here long enough to warrant that kind of investment right now so every couple of months I jet out my main sewer line to make sure it stays clear and free of clogs.



Disclosure laws will have you 10 grand less at the sale of property. Hide that fact and a camera inspection with 3 plumber's estimates to replace usually will dictate someone was pulling the wool over the eyes.

A belly in a old piping system doesn't happen overnight. Takes years and insurance companies/real estate agents know this.


Thanks for the great tip though!!

[GrumpyPlumber]

Thanks for the great tip though!!
Your are bad.

[harveymasons]

sorry rugged,

no disclosure laws of that nature exist in my state :)

Most older pipes have settled to some degree. It is rare to find a pipe over 50 years old still in tip top shape. Homebuyers should do their due dillegence before buying a house 50+ years of age and should not rely on silly disclosure laws which are so easily side stepped.

But thanks for the warning :)

[Cass]

sorry rugged,

no disclosure laws of that nature exist in my state :)

Most older pipes have settled to some degree. It is rare to find a pipe over 50 years old still in tip top shape. Homebuyers should do their due dillegence before buying a house 50+ years of age and should not rely on silly disclosure laws which are so easily side stepped.

But thanks for the warning :)

You really feel no moral responsibility to inform someone considering the purchase of your home of a serious, costly, defect in your home that you are well aware of????? WOW

What state are you from?

I find it hard to believe they don't have a disclosure law in your state but prehaps not.

You are a prime example as to why disclosure laws were enacted in the first place.

It is to bad people can't just be honest to begin with.

[harveymasons]

Oh cass, come on now, defect schmefect. I wouldn't call it a defect. Preventative maintenance is what I am doing. All pipes clog now and again and no pipe goes without some settling after 50-75 years of service.

D0 you expect your galvanized piping to last forever? At some point they will fail. When that time comes is anyone's guess.

IF every home inspection included sticking a camera down the hosue lateral I think people would be MUCH more cautious and there would much more price reductions going on. It really looks alot more scary then it really is. Lets keep it real Bud.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

See how easy it is to sniff out bad intent by others folks?

I "carefully" worded my statements to get a response I knew was sitting, just begging to come out from this guy.

I liked the advice but I knew there was more to the helpful advice given.

In my years as a plumber.....one of the more common occurrences when a house is sold there is errors and omissions. You cannot sell a property with a major plumbing/structural/electrical problem and pass it off to the next unsuspecting victim.

Guys like me get called in to inspect these lines, they look like the natural age progression has done its damage and the new property owner is sitting with a fantastic bill because the prior owner was deceptive.

Landlords are usually the worst type of people to get honesty from when it comes to their back pocket and expenses. The more they hold and bandaid their properties, the more they get to keep. That's why slumlords in my neighboring communities have to retain legal representation now. They are constantly drug into court to be held accountable for building code violations/upkeep/general maintenance on the yards to keep the neighborhood from blight.

I love showing up in court with my little pink slip stating my professional diagnosis of the situation. Almost every time it reaches that level of legality......the new property owner always wins. The real estate agency can be held liable as well.

Harveymasons, between your constant work to keep that system clean and your honest admission that you're going to screw somebody on the sale of this property,

you reinforce how landlords truly are, dishonest. That's keeping it real, bud.

[harveymasons]

My dearest rugged,

You must really be unhappy in your profession to make silly posts and lash out like you do.

Talk about dishonest people? I can rattle of 5 instances where plumbers have been dishonest w/ me and wanted to do work that wasn't warranted. Bu I won't make a blanket statement and say all Plumbers are dishonest.

Please explain what bad intent I had by posting a great way to clean your sewer main w/ a pressure washer? That was the intent of my original post, nothing more nothing less. I am sorry that it upsets you that maybe you will have less jobs to do b/c the simple DIYer will be able to get the job done w/ out having to call you in and have you charge them some outlandish amount for less then an hours work.

The fact of the matter is if you camered every sewer main before every closing you won't indeed have alot less closings.

S0 please quit w/ the negativity and get back to what you do best Mr. ***** pants :)

cheers

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Case histories of landlords constantly passing the buck, screwing new property owners

and,


no disclosure laws of that nature exist in my state :)



admission of guilt of your intent.


My job as a plumber, good citizen is to protect the buying public from people like you who are ethically challenged.

Your offended because I called a spade a spade. You took the bait, I just set it out there to see if you were going to screw the next guy, and you admitted to it!

Next time be more careful what you type on the internet.

[Cass]

Oh cass, come on now, defect schmefect. I wouldn't call it a defect. Preventative maintenance is what I am doing. All pipes clog now and again and no pipe goes without some settling after 50-75 years of service.

D0 you expect your galvanized piping to last forever? At some point they will fail. When that time comes is anyone's guess.

IF every home inspection included sticking a camera down the hosue lateral I think people would be MUCH more cautious and there would much more price reductions going on. It really looks alot more scary then it really is. Lets keep it real Bud.

#1
I am not your Bud. I don't know you. I am keeping it real.

#2 You avoided the moral point.

You know of a defect in the home that you said was upward of $10,000.00 repair and you werent going to fix it and said you wouldn't disclose it to the buyer because you were not required to by law.
Thats low. Even a home inspector can't catch that. To me that makes you lower than many things. If you didn't know about it.....different story. It is not as if it was a small $10.00 repair.

I see this all day long in homes I go into and I feel badly for the new home owner.

With your attitude such as it is your the kind of "Bud" I don't have any of.

I trust you will tell anyone who is thinking of purchasing your home that they should have the sewer line camered B 4 purchasing it since it is such a good idea.

[Cookie]

My Dearest Harveymasons,

It would had been so neat for you to contribute that you found a novel way to make the Plumbing work alittle easier. If the other plumbers here wouldn't had already known about it you might had been applauded. But, no one applauds fraud.

As a homeowner I got to tell you that you knowingly and willingly will cause harm and grief and strife to another human being.

What comes around goes around. You may be knowledgeable of plumbing but I am sure someday you will be taken for a ride yourself in something you know nothing about or something you cannot see.

[harveymasons]

"Case histories of landlords constantly passing the buck, screwing new property owners"

If one does their due dilligence one cannot be screwed Rugged. Please post these case studies you speak about.... I certainly will not hold my breath.

People have lived with bellies in their pipe for years. This is not something that HAS to be fixed. @ a price tag of 10-15k most people would rather jet out their line every 6 months to keep it clean. But that is all besides the point.

Trust me I didn't fall for any bait you claim to have set. Your just trying to make yourself look good among your buddies, And I am ok with that, I understand and feel for you b/c you have to make like you are a hero saving the innocent home buyer from the big bad wolf. Maybe you should volunteer to camera all sewer lines in your neighborhood for the buying public if you REALLY want to protect the innocent home buyer from the mean and evil landlord.

Lets take a step back here, without you putting words in my mouth when did I ever say I would specifically not inform a homebuyer about my issue? Seems like you fell for my bait based on how I responded to your accusations.I worded my responses very carefully and well you know the rest..... :)

"I liked the advice but I knew there was more to the helpful advice given. "

What does this mean? There is not more then helpful advice being given. You are tring to make it more. The advice is good sound plumbing advice and it stops there. My decision to inform or not inform a home buyer of this issue has nothing to do with the advice being given on this forum.Why must you bring things to such a personal level on a plumbing forum? I gave good helpful advice and it stops there. If I went out and murdured someone tomorrow the advice on this forum is still good sound advice. My actions do not take away from the advice given. So next time do us a faver and don't look so much into things on a message forum because to your surprise there are people who post good advice without there being an alterior motive.

Geeesh can't we all just get along???? Hey how about you come out and replace my lateral at your cost, this way you won't have to stay up each and every night worrying about the poor soul who is gonna buy my house and get screwed???? And you will be doing a good deed for the buying public who you care so much about. :)

[Dunbar Plumbing]

the poor soul who is gonna buy my house and get screwed



This is the only person I care about, not you. This is the person I have to break the bad news to, the women usually cry as the experience is unpleasant whether it be single family house used as rental property or a huge 8 family.

I truly think your intentions are placed on this earth so those of us with understanding and wisdom learn from your mistakes and dishonesty.....and we protect others from such harmful ways.

Be a hero and do the right thing......be honest in your situation.

[molo]

Any homeowner who relies on those disclosuer laws is kidding themselves. In fact, any homeowner who relies on these flashy home inspection services is kidding themselves too. A homeowners best bet is to due their "due diligence" and get very reliable trade professionals (pay them accordingly) to look through the home. A GOOD code enforcement officer might do, or one each of an electrician, plumber, builder/structural engineer.
As for HarveyMasons, Would you consider telling the buyers that, "we need to jet the main every 6 months, and this is how we do it...."?

[geniescience]

mere mention of jetting it out -- that is all i would expect. As the next buyer, either I understand the possible implications or it went over my head.

home inspectors are often in moral dilemma situations too, and often they say the minimum just to get themselves off the hook, and if the client (or reader) doesn't catch all the implications, because it was said in a way that made it fly right past them, over their head, then oh well, what do you know.... This is an even more questionable act, when you are hired to say what you have found out about a property.

Now that the hard text has been written, let's lighten up a bit or a lot.

david

[harveymasons]

mere mention of jetting it out -- that is all i would expect. As the next buyer, either I understand the possible implications or it went over my head.

home inspectors are often in moral dilemma situations too, and often they say the minimum just to get themselves off the hook, and if the client (or reader) doesn't catch all the implications, because it was said in a way that made it fly right past them, over their head, then oh well, what do you know.... This is an even more questionable act, when you are hired to say what you have found out about a property.

Now that the hard text has been written, let's lighten up a bit or a lot.

davidot

AMEN!!! What started out as a helpful tip not intended specifically for Plumbers but and avid DIYer has turned into a silly battle of morals, dragging in home inspectors, plumbers, buyers, sellers This has spiraled way out of control and I hope we can end this right here.

regards,
Harvey

[Cass]

Yes , home buyers should do their due dillegence when purchasing a home.

but

The point is you have a moral obligation to disclose any major hidden problems with the house that you know about and you don't think you do because you don't want your pocketbook slaped for 10K.

That is what it boils down to.

And yes, I guess you must think morals are silly, because you surely don't have any in this reguard

[harveymasons]

Cass,

Enough w/ the morals already. You really need to let this go so the forum can get back to it's educational self.

You don't know me and again I ask you to show me where I have clearly stated that I would not disclose this info. Guess what?? you can't, so please knock it off with the Mr Moral routine it is really getting old around here.

Never make assumptions. see what happens when we assume? PLease never assume anything ever again.

We now return to our regularly scheduled forum discussion. :)

[Cass]

Are you going to...............

[Cookie]

No one is asking you to stay. Yet, no one is asking you to leave. Just better conversation.

[geniescience]

No one is asking you to stay. Yet, no one is asking you to leave. Just better conversation.yes, he is way out of line to show so much anger and indignation. We do need better conversation. Something like a full sentence to start with. And less repetition. I could blast him 10000% harder. I hardly scraped him when i said the hard text has now been written, and the next things said could be lighter. Then he went and did it again. (As if the guy needed to be blasted again!)

This other guy, who is getting hit, was quite soft in his last post, and the second to last post, and the one before it. Please see that a soft tone is the first step to kissing and making up. I vote we keep him. And promote him.

Somebody has to step in and say stop it you kids, or else sooner or later it may die down all by itself, eventually, after hurting a thousand other readers. Lurkers don't want to see newbies getting blasted.

At some point, angry people have to let it go, especially internet people. Fighting phantoms. The guy can say anything -- to appease or -- to rankle. At some point the whole thing will be long forgotten, and since one has no real way of knowing what an internet person will do next, either in a thread or in real life, then I think it is all best left alone once all points have been made. No need to repeat blaming statements, that is certain. It hurts the forum. Real bad.

I do recognize that anyone could have gotten upset along the way reading the answers given, but ultimately the time has come to stop being angry. Firstly, no one has said they will do the immoral thing. So maybe you angry ones were baited a little bit. No big deal; it's over now. Secondly, when the time comes to sell the building, what he does then is not up to anyone here to spell out and ask for a promise to obey. If I may be so daring as to say so.

David

[GrumpyPlumber]

Oh cass, come on now, defect schmefect. I wouldn't call it a defect.


I see comments like that at the plumbing supply all the time, things like "The lady will never know I left the vent open inside the wall."..."The smokepipe was a little back-pitched...so what?".
I'll wager any money you'd rather not be the person they were talking about.

There's an expression I like: "Losing the battle, winning the war."
I'll take a short-term loss for a longterm gain.
Take shortcuts...do things the easy way...cheat...you win for now.
I am slowly learning to reap the longterm benefits of doing things right in the first place.
In the end, what comes around goes around.

[OldPete]

Morality is relative.

Do I think what the original poster is doing is "right"? No. However, Due diligence on the part of the buyer could remedy his lack of ethics.

On the other hand, if you're tradesperson, oh, say, I don't know --- a plumber, and you go to an old woman's house that you just know hasn't been Blessed with much money, and you do work that you could normally get $500, but she only has $100, do you still do it? Or do you "forget" to return her call?

See? Morality is a funny thing. I wonder if some of the people here are are "moral" as they chime to be. If they are, I have two very good friends that are having some hard times right now and need some plumbing work. Who's the first one to offer to help?

Hmmm?

Just my thoughts. No harm. No Hate.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Morality is relative.

Do I think what the original poster is doing is "right"? No. However, Due diligence on the part of the buyer could remedy his lack of ethics.

On the other hand, if you're tradesperson, oh, say, I don't know --- a plumber, and you go to an old woman's house that you just know hasn't been Blessed with much money, and you do work that you could normally get $500, but she only has $100, do you still do it? Or do you "forget" to return her call?

See? Morality is a funny thing. I wonder if some of the people here are are "moral" as they chime to be. If they are, I have two very good friends that are having some hard times right now and need some plumbing work. Who's the first one to offer to help?

Hmmm?

Just my thoughts. No harm. No Hate.



Every once in a great while I run into a "financially challenged" customer. I offer payment plans if I trust their character or if they are a repeat customer, but nothing else.

When I go to the grocery store, they don't give discounts if you are broke.

When you pay your mortgage, they don't give discounts if you are broke

When you pay your taxes, they don't give discounts if you are broke.

When you buy fuel, they don't give discounts if you are broke.

I'd like to see this "moral" issue come to print where it says that plumbers should be giving discounts for the challenged. Mixing emotion into your profession ONLY for the broke is bad business, period.

Had a woman that agreed to a $90 charge (Overtime for a thermocouple replacement)....said she was broke, activated a credit card just so she could pay me.

I run the card, denied. She went to eat at a restaurant with her daughter at the tune of $60 and overcharged the card *right before I arrived* whereby my charge wouldn't follow through. Mind you, this woman was in tears a couple times as we were talking about how rough she has it. I sat in that house until she found somebody to pay me with cash, no personal check since I didn't trust her sitting there with a full belly of rich food.


Here's a funny thing OldPete,

Explain your morality of your known level of knowledge of plumbing @ 181 posts and you do not want anything to do with helping your "friends" with their plumbing?

Seems very selfish knowing your experience, your activity here chiming in about what you know.

Since you're not on the level of helping, give me their number, tell them to join this forum, if I have any "free" materials that can assist, I will provide.

I'll give them every bit of knowledge I can, it will be accurate.

You want a example of good moral turpitude? Ask friends why friends don't help each other out, and pawn the deed to others, like strangers.

Just my thoughts, No harm. No hate.

[OldPete]

Got to love it when a person attacks the person, not the topic, eh.

(By the way, most of the things that you think you can't get a discount can be discounted via different public and private agencies -- from housing, to food, and beyond.)

As to the next-to-last line in your reply, I have no idea what you are trying to say, I know I *do* help people out where I can, it would seem that you do not since you have decided to attack *me* (thread count) and not the possible debate.

Next I would question how it is that in the middle of the day you're... well... I won't attack you -- that would just make me behave like you are and that... well, I think you get the point. ;)

[Cookie]

I contacted 2 Real Estate brokers and found out that all 50 states for residential require a disclosure statement.

There are exceptions.

Commerical
Estate or where the bank owns it or being repossessed
Multi Family Units

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Next I would question how it is that in the middle of the day you're... well... I won't attack you -- that would just make me behave like you are and that... well, I think you get the point. ;)


As I promised, I'll help your friends, I'll send free materials if it warrants the cause, and I'll freely give them advice no matter which way you're trying to spin it.

I was hoping that would be your return response as I'm sure your not bluffing me.


Good find Cookie. I guess the viewing public can see why I felt the need to bring caution to the statement as I've been the bad guy to break the news to a lot of people who just made their #1 biggest financial purchase in their life, only to find out somebody tried to hide serious issues that equate to money. I believe the "multi-family" is only excluded because the majority of these property owners usually do not live in them. Owner-occupied changes that scenario greatly, it's a glitch in wording that gives a free meal ticket.


Yeah, I don't work. Huh? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/AA001.jpg) Oh wow (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/AA002.jpg)

[OldPete]

And what if it is done without a broker/realtor?

[Cookie]

Rugged, exactly what I was told when I asked why multi's were excluded. The owner is not living in it.

I can only say this about what you asked Old Pete-- in my own family, a family member sold a house that was in the inlaw's family for years, and the bad roof was disclosed to the other family member before buying it. I am pretty sure the seller's attorney handled this.

As far as if I asked the broker that specific question I did not.

[froddan]

Regardless of the Moral discussion that followed the tip on how to clean the sewer pipes, is this machine they rent at Home Depot what you were referring to?
http://www.*********rents.com/proTools/rooter_100.asp

The picture seems similar to what you described

[harveymasons]

Hi Froddan,

That picture is Very different then what I originally was describing before we got off on a moral discussion tangent.

That picture is a common drum snake which clears clogged drains and sewer lines by various different cutting heads that are put on the front. IF you have a pipe clogged say 90% a snake will only cut a hole in the clog. The snake is fed into your line manually or by a foot switch.

A sewer jetter cleans much differently and in my opinion MUCH more effectively. Have you ever seen a pressure washer in action?? Imagine a specialized nozzle doing the same thing inside your sewer main breaking up any clogs and scrubbing your pipe walls w/ extreme high pressure. So much pressure that the hose thrusts forward on it's own due to the force of the back jets hitting the pipe walls.Makes for excellent cleaning and unclogging as you can imagine. You can get different types of sewer jetting nozzles to do different things.

As I said earlier, if you have a pressure washer then you are already there, all you need are about 75.00 dollars worth of add on parts and you have yourself sewer jetter that will eat any snake for breakfast :)

[SteveW]

Several times the concept of "due diligence" on the part of a home buyer has come up in this thread. I got to thinking - exactly what does this mean in this particular case? That any prospective home buyer should plan to have the house's sewer line camera'ed just on general principle? This certainly seems like something one would never do as part of a prepurchase routine home inspection.

So how exactly could a potential homebuyer avoid a known defect in a sewer line that wasn't properly disclosed?

[Backglass]

Any homeowner who relies on those disclosuer laws is kidding themselves.

Exactly.

If selling a house here in New York, you must provide a disclosure form to the buyer. The form has three check boxes for every issue "Yes", "No" and "Unknown". What do you think most people check? "Unknown" as that way you can't be accused of falsifying a disclosure. If you fail to provide a disclosure at all, state law says the buyer is entitled to a $500 credit at closing as compensation.

Do you know what happens at 90% of the NY closings? Yup...The buyer gets the $500 credit. I am currently selling a house. My real estate attorney advised me to just give the credit and avoid any potential complications down the road...even though I have nothing to hide on a 6 year old house.

Disclosures aren't worth the paper they are written on...at least in New York.

[kordts]

oldpete,
what the hell is moral about a plumber taking it in the shorts? Now he has to overcharge somebody else, do it on a day off and take time away from his family, or not make it up and go short on his cash flow. I fail to see the similarity between a plumber declining to get screwed, or a property owner not disclosing a known defect. If you know all kinds of ways to get free stuff out there, have your broke friends get the free goodies and save their cash to pay for a plumber.