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molo
07-02-2007, 07:00 PM
Hello all,

Is this light dangerous? I have provided four photos of the light above my medicine cabinet. Can you experts tell what's wrong with this light if anything? It is old, but if it's safe I will reinstall it.
If it is dangerous, I have the challenge of finding a new light that is approximately 14" long (the width of the medicine cabinet. There is currently no GFCI outlet in this bathroom, do they make new lights with GFCI outlets on them?

I appreciate the input from anyone,

Thanks in advance, Molo

snafflekid
07-03-2007, 12:21 AM
It looks unbroken, are you concerned that one side is a little rusty? If it is not damaged then there is no reason to think anything is wrong. Usually the convience plug is facing down so it can be used, intended for an electric razor. You won't find a GFCI light fixture because only receptacles are GFCI protected.

leejosepho
07-03-2007, 03:18 AM
I believe I see a ground wire in the wall box ...

I would try to fish some wire down the wall alongside the cabinet (maybe about halfway down), then install a GF outlet and power it from the original wire ... then run protected power back up to the light and remove its 2-prong outlet altogether.

molo
07-03-2007, 05:57 AM
Hello all,

In particular, I am wondering if the fact that the back of the light fixture being so open is OK? Essentially the wire nuts that are connecting the box to the light will be hangin in the open wall cavity. So essentially it will be a junction made outside of a metal box. Is this safe?

TIA,
Molo

hj
07-03-2007, 06:09 AM
There should/must be a ground wire to the light's housing and the receptacle has to be removed, or at least disconnected. Normally the light's wiring would be connected directly to the wires in the box, rather than having the pigtails to extend the leads.

jadnashua
07-03-2007, 07:18 AM
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the neutral is bonded to the case of the light fixture. I'd replace the thing, move the box so that it is centered over the cabinet and the light can be anchored as designed. I'd much prefer a safety ground on the light, especially since it is in a bathroom. If you then fix up the drywall, plaster, whatever there, your choice of fixtures goes up to nearly infinity...there is a huge quantity of lamp available. Before you move the box, check out the light, you may find one deeper than you want, and need to raise it a bit so the light doesn't hang over the top of the cabinet.

Alectrician
07-03-2007, 05:13 PM
The outlet is not safe and the wall being torn up is possibly more unsafe.

If there is an elec problem, it is generally at the wire connections. The boxes are designed to contain these problems for a reasonable time. If you have arcing in this j box, you have an open cell into the attic.

Repair the wall and properly install a new fixture. If the wies and lampholders look good, just disconnect the outlet and use the old fixture.

You could add a GFCI outlet below this fixture but if there is only one set of wires in the fixture the GFCI will only be hot when the light is switched on.

leejosepho
07-03-2007, 06:37 PM
You could add a GFCI outlet below this fixture but if there is only one set of wires in the fixture the GFCI will only be hot when the light is switched on.

Not if you power the light through the GFCI.

molo
07-03-2007, 07:02 PM
The outlet is not safe and the wall being torn up is possibly more unsafe.

If there is an elec problem, it is generally at the wire connections. The boxes are designed to contain these problems for a reasonable time. If you have arcing in this j box, you have an open cell into the attic.

Repair the wall and properly install a new fixture. If the wies and lampholders look good, just disconnect the outlet and use the old fixture.

You could add a GFCI outlet below this fixture but if there is only one set of wires in the fixture the GFCI will only be hot when the light is switched on.

Thanks for the help. Are you suggesting that I could repair the wall, disconnect the outlet, and use the light if the "wies (wires?) and lampholders look good"? If so, could you please tell me what the lampholders are?

Also, I had the same thought about the GFCI only being run by the switch. This would be fine as the only light in the bathroom is controlled by a switch, and can't imajine someone shaving in the dark. The original setup was this light only. Now I took power from the box (in the photos) and brought it up to a bathroom celing fan/light. Which is also controlled by the one switch in the bathroom. If I did the GFCI out of that box, I would have 4 wires going into that box.

Thanks for any input,

TIA, Molo

frenchie
07-04-2007, 12:11 AM
As long as you're opening walls & fishing wires, why not run the gfi from the switch box, where you have constant power? Just a thought...

Some people use rechargeable cordless shavers, would you ant to have to leave the light on to charge it?

There's a limit to how many wires any particular box can hold, something to do with heat buildup. An electrician (or maybe alectrician) would tell you for sure, but I think 4 sets of wires would be too much for your box.

Definitely want all connections to be inside a box. No splices in the wall cavity.

"Lampholder" is sparky-speak for the bit where you screw the bulb in: what you and I would call a socket.

molo
07-04-2007, 07:05 AM
If splices "in the wall cavity" aren't allowed (which I am aware of), then the design of this light, with it's open back allows for splices on the outside of the wall cavity. The back of this light is 14" wide and 4" high of open space where the wires can drift around outside of the box where they are coming from. Are these kinds of splices safe? Also, I agree Frenchie, as long as I have it open right now I might as well incorporate the GFCI, and do whatever I need to do to bring the box size to meet code. Presently the power comes into the box that is directly behind the light, and is run over to the switch. The box behind the light and the switch box are the only two boxes in the bathroom. I would like to add a ceiling fan/light (controlled by the same switch), and a GFCI outlet.

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 08:36 AM
Is there something else that comes on with this light?

What I am seeing is two whites and two blacks connected to the light.

I donít see where there is a switch leg being dropped out of the box.

All splices and joints as well as conductors MUST be in the box.

molo
07-04-2007, 08:46 AM
Hello JW,
This light also has a switch on top. The switch and light are wired into the box. From the box (out of the top) is where there is a leg going to the switch. (the white is colored black, and the black is black. I would like to add a vent/light to this switch, and a GFCI outlet. If all splices must be in a box, how could this be done with this light?

Thanks for any input, and constructive criticism,

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 08:53 AM
Is there more than two wire nuts in the box?

I can't see but two.

Could you take and post a picture of all the conductors in the box?

molo
07-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Yes, I will have some detail photos there in 30 minutes.

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 10:14 AM
Yes, I will have some detail photos there in 30 minutes.

TIA,
Molo

Good deal

molo
07-04-2007, 11:25 AM
Here are some photos,

1. Medicine cabinet and switch
2. Medicine cabinet and new vent/light. (it is in place but not wired yet)
3. The light that was above the medicine cabinet, (still trying to determine if I can reuse it)
4. The light receptacle that the light was attached to. The wire on the right is the wire I have run for the vent/light. The red handle points to the power leg coming into the box.
5. The switch (there is only one wire coming into this box)

The goal: To safely install or reinstall the medicine cabinet light. To wire the new vent/light. To havde both the medicine cabinet light and vent controlled by the one bathroom switch. To add a GFCI outlet not controlled by the switch.

Thanks for any help,
TIA, Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 12:13 PM
Install a box and cable for the GFCI receptacle. Move box at light to where it is behind the fixture at the point of joints for light.

The white for fan, light, receptacle and feed under one wire nut.
The black from the feed, receptacle and the identified with black tape to the switch under one wire nut.
The black from the fan, light and from switch under one wire nut.

This will not give you a twenty amp circuit for the receptacle but it will be safer than what you now have.

molo
07-04-2007, 01:06 PM
Thanks JW,
Does it seem right that I will have to put the GFCI outlet box just to the left of the existing light receptacle over the medicine cabinet? I am thyinking about how to get a power leg into the GFCI, and it seems I will have to move the one from the light box to the GFCI or use a junction box. (which I know I am not supposed to conceal), therfore I shouldn't simply use the exisiting light box as the j-box.

Sound right, or am I missing an easier way to get power to the GFCI outlet box?
NOTE: Here is a link to the fuse system that I have. Would I have to run power from this?
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14007
TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 01:27 PM
Not knowing how the bath sink and cabniet is set up it would be hard to give advice on where to install the receptacle.

looking at the light it seems that it could be turned with the lampholders covering the box that is already installed.

If space allows drop down to just over the sink but below the cabinet and install the GFCI

molo
07-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Thanks for helping me with this JW. The light is the same width as the medicine cabinet, and did cover the existing receptacle box before. My concern is that the splices for the wires coming off the light were not actually in the box, but in the 1" gap behind the light and the sheetrock, is this up to code and safe? If so, I will reinstall it the same way, I will repair the sheetrock, and reuse this light because I like the light. Also, What do you think about how I should get power to the GFCI outlet?

Thanks again,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 03:10 PM
Thanks for helping me with this JW. The light is the same width as the medicine cabinet, and did cover the existing receptacle box before. My concern is that the splices for the wires coming off the light were not actually in the box, but in the 1" gap behind the light and the sheetrock, is this up to code and safe? If so, I will reinstall it the same way, I will repair the sheetrock, and reuse this light because I like the light. Also, What do you think about how I should get power to the GFCI outlet?

Thanks again,
Molo

The box will need to be behind the place where the wires go through the light fixture on the old fixture. The old box should be able to move this much even if it means moving the light up a little higher.

To supply the receptacle read this (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87971&postcount=18)

molo
07-04-2007, 03:21 PM
Install a box and cable for the GFCI receptacle. Move box at light to where it is behind the fixture at the point of joints for light.

The white for fan, light, receptacle and feed under one wire nut.
The black from the feed, receptacle and the identified with black tape to the switch under one wire nut.
The black from the fan, light and from switch under one wire nut.

This will not give you a twenty amp circuit for the receptacle but it will be safer than what you now have.


OK, I understand. Next, how do I determine the size of the box I will need for the 4 wires? Also, is it acceptable to have the splices from the light fixture wires simply "floating" between the box and the back of the light fixture? If you look at the photo of the light fixture you will see that there is large open area along the entire back of the fixture. In other words, there is no physical barrier that surrounds the light fixture wires and connects to the box? Is this safe/to code?

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 03:49 PM
OK, I understand. Next, how do I determine the size of the box I will need for the 4 wires?TIA,
Molo A round nail up box and a 2x4 scabbed between the studs



Also, is it acceptable to have the splices from the light fixture wires simply "floating" between the box and the back of the light fixture?TIA,
Molo NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

If you look at the photo of the light fixture you will see that there is large open area along the entire back of the fixture. In other words, there is no physical barrier that surrounds the light fixture wires and connects to the box? Is this safe/to code?

TIA,
Molo NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

After you do the wiring fix the hole behind the fixture.
Try to make it look like you live there.
Do the best job you can.
Always walk away feeling proud of your work.
Give it a full 110%.
Get er done.

molo
07-04-2007, 07:52 PM
A round nail up box and a 2x4 scabbed between the studs


NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

After you do the wiring fix the hole behind the fixture.
Try to make it look like you live there.
Do the best job you can.
Always walk away feeling proud of your work.
Give it a full 110%.
Get er done.

Thanks for the reply, I want to do this 110% right. I won't commence work until I have a plan that is safe and functional. So I am spending all of this time to develop a safe and acceptable approach!
Please be patient while I restate my question about the back of the light fixture...... I am planning to repatch the hole in the wall, with proper framing pieces installed in the stud cavity to secure the new box, sheetrock, and light fixture to. My question is regarding the fact that there the top and bottom edges of the light fixture hold the 14" x 3" center portion of the back of the light fixture away from the wall. Therfore allowing for a space that big (even with the new sheetrock behind it). In other words, when you install a switch or an outlet, the switch or outler cover serves to enclose the box. In the case of this light the back of the fixture has the large open cavity that will not be directly in contact with the box, and certainly not enclosing the box tightly like a switch or outlet cover. Is this acceptable?

Hopefully I explained myself,
Molo

jwelectric
07-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Now I am beginning to understand your question a little better. I went back to the original pictures where I can see that part of the fixture is missing.
Where is the back of the fixture?

Yes there should be a back to the fixture that seems to be missing. You may need to find a new fixture. There should never be open conductors exposed to the wall board.

molo
07-04-2007, 08:47 PM
Thanks JW!
I tryed to hard to explain the question, and I think you are getting my drift.
This is a situation that I only see with light fixtures, occasionally I have installed new light fixtures where I have wondered about this. What I question is that you can have a brand new light fixture that is 10" in diameter (the new ones often have a piece of insulation with a foil face that goes against the sheetrock). None the less there is a 10" diameter light fixture covering a 4" diameter light receptacle, theoretically with no physical means of keeping the wires from drifting out of the light receptacle and between the foil-insulation that comes with the light and the sheetrock. Is it acceptable by code to allow this? Is this safe? This is the real question. With the answer to this question, I will have the answer to my light fixture problem. I'm assuming that code allows it, since almost any new light fixture has a larger diameter than the light receptacle does. But I don't want to assume that it is safe.
Again, I hope I explained my question clearly.
TIA,
Molo

Alectrician
07-04-2007, 10:56 PM
Indeed, part of the fixture is missing so get a new one.

The good news is that you have unswitched power at the j box so you can install your GFCI correctly.

Change that metal box to a plastic one. Single gang deep would give you plenty of room for 4 cables.

Your hot pair (Black and white) will connect to the B and W to the GFCI.

The WHITE wire going to your switch will be hooked to the blacks also (we call it a suicide switch). That is the power going TO the switch.

The BLACK wire will be your "switch leg" coming back from the switch. It will attach to the black (hot) wire of your new fixture.

The whiite (neutral) wire on your new fixture will attach (usually by means of a pigtail) to the other white neutrals.

Follow the citcuit. It "comes in" on the black and "goes" back on the white.

GROUND everything (metal) and TIGHTEN your wire nuts.


To address your Q on lights being larger than the J box....If the drywall is tight around the box it is "safe". Drywall is not really combustible so the fire would be contained for a while, hopefully till the breaker tripped.

molo
07-05-2007, 06:48 AM
Indeed, part of the fixture is missing so get a new one.

The good news is that you have unswitched power at the j box so you can install your GFCI correctly.

Change that metal box to a plastic one. Single gang deep would give you plenty of room for 4 cables.

Your hot pair (Black and white) will connect to the B and W to the GFCI.

The WHITE wire going to your switch will be hooked to the blacks also (we call it a suicide switch). That is the power going TO the switch.

The BLACK wire will be your "switch leg" coming back from the switch. It will attach to the black (hot) wire of your new fixture.

The whiite (neutral) wire on your new fixture will attach (usually by means of a pigtail) to the other white neutrals.

Follow the citcuit. It "comes in" on the black and "goes" back on the white.

GROUND everything (metal) and TIGHTEN your wire nuts.


To address your Q on lights being larger than the J box....If the drywall is tight around the box it is "safe". Drywall is not really combustible so the fire would be contained for a while, hopefully till the breaker tripped.


Thanks for the answer to my question about the lights over the J-box! I've been wondering about this for a long time. Are there specific openings around the j-box that code just won't allow? (1/2", 3/4" 1") At what point, if any, would an inspector say that the opening is too much?

Thanks for the help,
Molo

frenchie
07-05-2007, 10:30 AM
1/8th.

Plaster right to the edge of the box.

molo
07-05-2007, 11:53 AM
Look at that vent! It is right in the way of me moving the box over to the center of the med cab. and installing nice new light! That explains why they had the old box off to the left!
The vent/light that I installed takes a 100w bulb, this is a small bathroom. Should I abandon putting a light above3 the med cab. or will the vent light not be enough?
Any suggestions for abandoning the med-cab light, reusing the old box location, or relocating another light are very welcome.

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-05-2007, 12:00 PM
leave the box location where it is and hang something like this

http://www.antiquemystique.com/images/6255_jpg.jpg

use a hook in the ceiling to center the light back over the cabinet

D.Smith
07-05-2007, 12:30 PM
Now why cant you just put a junction box with cover there and run 14/3 to back of light behind the wall where it would fit inside to do the splicing?

frenchie
07-05-2007, 02:02 PM
D. Smith - because there's no room for a box between the pipe and the cabinet? And junction boxes have to remain accessible.

Molo - I'm not 100% sure, but I think I've seen fixtures, similar to the one you had on there originally, that allow the wires to go through the middle or near then end of the fixture's back panel...

Push comes to shove, could you lower the cabinet an inch?

molo
07-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Hi frenchie,

That's pushing and shoving, lol. The amount I have to lower it would depend on the size of the light fixture.
Another option I've been considering is using the existing location of the box (at the top left of the med. cabinet) (where power comes into the bathroom), and using it for the GFCI outlet location, then everything in the bathroom will be GFCI protected. I would relocate the light receptacle to the ceiling centered above the med cab.( I want to avoid it being off-center of the med cab.) I would have to use the GFCI outlet box as a junction box where the switch wire, new med.cab light wire , and new bathfan/light wire would be. My concern with this is fitting all the wires in the box behind the GFCI. There would be power coming in (3-14gauge wires), power coming off the GFCI to be spliced with other wires (2-12gauge wires), the switch (3-14gauge wires), the med cab light (3-12gauge wires), and the new fan/light (3-12gauge wires), plus the GFCI outlet!
A grand total of 6-14gauge wires coming in, 6 - 12gauge wires coming in, 2 -12gauge wires coming off the outlet within the box bringing power to the switch/light system, and the outlet.
Is this even possible?
Is there any easy way of doing this?
Again the goal : "The goal: To safely install or reinstall the medicine cabinet light. To wire the new vent/light. To havde both the medicine cabinet light and vent controlled by the one bathroom switch. To add a GFCI outlet not controlled by the switch." (if the GFCI protects everything in the bathroom that would be a bonus, but not neccesary)

Thanks for the patience and help,
Molo

frenchie
07-05-2007, 02:38 PM
I like the idea of everything being GFI protected, but it's not required by any codes I know of... Mike (jwelectric) is the code expert, though: wait till he confirms/denies this.

Even if it wasn't overloading the box (and I think it would be), I just don't see how you could physically fit 4 runs, the required wire nuts, and a GFI in a normal receptacle box.

I've come across this sort of problem before, though. My sparky uses a larger box:

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-45-electrical-boxes-metal/square-box-239574.aspx

(you can also get extra-deep version of this, if you need even more room inside)

With a mudring on it:

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-45-box-covers/4-square-cover-raised-1-4--662552.aspx

The mudrings we use have a bit more depth on the raised ring. He installs them so that the ring's level with the wall finish surface, and I plaster/tape over the sides. You can still get to all the wires from the opening, so it's not a concealed junction box.

Side-note: you want to leave your wires, in the box, longer than the usual 6". He usually leaves 9 or 10, for this kind of setup.


BTW, overhead lighting in a bathroom really sucks when you're trying to shave, because of the shadows.





Mike can tell me if this is legal - I've seen it a lot, in old work - could you run the light off a receptacle box installed sideways? Then it's only about 2" tall, and you'd have room between the pipe and the cabinet. Since all your junctions would be in the receptacle box, capacity wouldn't be an issue...

molo
07-05-2007, 04:22 PM
Mike can tell me if this is legal - I've seen it a lot, in old work - could you run the light off a receptacle box installed sideways? Then it's only about 2" tall, and you'd have room between the pipe and the cabinet. Since all your junctions would be in the receptacle box, capacity wouldn't be an issue...

I like this idea, I'd still need a large box to fit 12 wires coming in and out.

jwelectric
07-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Mike can tell me if this is legal -

Sounds good to me.

There are a few choices available to him and a few decisions he will have to make on his own,

Alectrician
07-05-2007, 07:25 PM
If you use a bath bar fixture like the one you took out, you can put the JBox where it was and drill/punch the back of the new fixture in the appropriate place. Use a BUSHING where the wires enter of course.

molo
07-05-2007, 08:23 PM
If you use a bath bar fixture like the one you took out, you can put the JBox where it was and drill/punch the back of the new fixture in the appropriate place. Use a BUSHING where the wires enter of course.

Let me ask a question that perhaps I should have asked a long time ago. What makes the existing light dangerous? A couple of you have said that the back is missing, I can say that there is a front cover (not in photos) that goes over the part in the photos. The front cover (not in photos) has parts that cover the ends of the light fixture (in photos)running back to the wall. So, between the ends provided by the front part (not in photos), and the top and the bottom of the fixture (in photos), and the sheetrock on the wall (soon-to be) there is a complete enclosure around the wires. Is this dangerous? I know that alot of new light fixtures have insulation with a reflective layer, is this all that you guys are referring to when you say someting is missing or are you referring to the front cover with sides that run back to the wall(not in photos)? Exactly what is it that you guys think is missing? Based on what I just explained, does the light fixture still sound dangerous? There are 3 other bathrooms here, all with the same light over the medicine cabinet. Maybe I should answer these questions before I buy 3 more lights.
Thanks,
Molo

frenchie
07-05-2007, 11:01 PM
Your photos gave the impression that 1/2 the fixture was missing. You have the back and the front? Then you're set.

Do as Alectrician says - drill out a new hole in the back, give it a bushing, run your wires where you need them to be for the fixture to be centered. The right bit to do this with, since you want a very clean hole, is an electician's stepped bit, they run about 40$ but give a nice, clean hole that you can fit a bushing onto. A regular bit will tear the edges.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=362-105

I was going to suggest that, but assumed it was illegal to modify listed equipement... I guess maybe not?



My idea for using a receptacle box at the light, was based on using the bigger box with a mud-ring for the receptacle box, and doing all you splices there - only one cable run to the light box.

jadnashua
07-06-2007, 12:59 PM
In a small bathroom, it may not be possible, but I prefer to use lights to the sides of the mirror; you get fewer unflattering shadows that way, and then you would avoid the problem you have with the vent pipe. If you wanted, you could jog the vent pipe as well.

molo
07-06-2007, 05:58 PM
Ok, this is what I've done. I've temporarily installed the outlet and light fixture to see if this worked. I will be replacing the temporary standard 15 amp outlet with a 15 amp GFCI outletas soon as I get to the store, and I will be replacing the light IF you experts STILL think it's unsafe. PLEASE look at the photos of the light fixture with the front attached and tell me if it's still unsafe. This is exactly how it was installed when I got to it.
How I wired this:
I used a large metal box (4" x4" x 2 1/8" deep) above the medicine cabinet. I also installed an outlet box to the right of the vanity (in photo). I used the big metal box to junction the old power leg with new power going to the outlet. Then I brought powre out of the outlet back into the big metal box and used that as my power leg to wire the switch, light, and fan to.
1. Is this light still dangerous?
2. What is the best way to hande the 5 ground wires?

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-06-2007, 06:24 PM
You done a good job. Make sure that all the wires go into the box and nothing is left out except the fixture wires.

Where is the receptacle?

molo
07-06-2007, 07:01 PM
If you look at photo 1 from my last post, the receptacle is at the lower left.

1. Is this light still dangerous?
2. What is the best way to hande the 5 ground wires?

TIA,
Molo

jwelectric
07-06-2007, 08:50 PM
If you look at photo 1 from my last post, the receptacle is at the lower left. My fault, just didn't look hard enough


1. Is this light still dangerous? Less dangerous now that it was before. It will be fine

2. What is the best way to hande the 5 ground wires?

TIA,
Molo Not sure what you are asking but be sure to bond the metal box and use a wire nut on the grounds ( I think this is what you are asking)

molo
07-06-2007, 09:40 PM
That's what I'm asking,
How do I bond the box?

frenchie
07-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Means you connect the metal box to the ground wires.

Look for a grounding screw, inside the box. If there isn't one, look for a grounding-screw-hole. It's often got a little arrow nearby, and the letters "grd.", to differentiate it from the mounting holes.

If you need to get grounding screws, any electrical supply will have them, even HD has them sometimes.

Connect a pigtail under the screw, join the other end with your ground wires bundle. Which you connect all together, as Mike mentioned, with a wire nut.


...I was going to link to a picture I found on a google search, but it's from a blocked site.

So I stole it, instead.


They don't have a bundle of ground wires, and it's a fan not a light, so it's a tiny bit different; but the basic principle's the same:

molo
07-08-2007, 06:55 AM
Thanks for all the help guys, this was a good learning experience. My local electric supply house has some new med.cab. lights that I will be looking at this week. He said the hole is in the center (where the wires come out) but I could drill over to the side and bring the wires out in front of the box. I'll have to take a look. I wonder what code is for insulating lights like this. Most of the new lights that I see have a layer of insulation with a reflective coating on one side. This is usually found between the light fixture and the wall/ceiling. I wonder if this reflective layer of insulation is required where the fixture is larger than the receptacle, which is so often the case with light fixtures. Does anybody know about the requirements for this? I am particularly interested because sometimes I like to use older light fixtures.

Molo

jwelectric
07-08-2007, 09:10 AM
Thanks for all the help guys, this was a good learning experience. My local electric supply house has some new med.cab. lights that I will be looking at this week. He said the hole is in the center (where the wires come out) but I could drill over to the side and bring the wires out in front of the box. I'll have to take a look. I wonder what code is for insulating lights like this. Most of the new lights that I see have a layer of insulation with a reflective coating on one side. This is usually found between the light fixture and the wall/ceiling. I wonder if this reflective layer of insulation is required where the fixture is larger than the receptacle, which is so often the case with light fixtures. Does anybody know about the requirements for this? I am particularly interested because sometimes I like to use older light fixtures.

Molo

It would depend on the UL listing.

molo
07-09-2007, 09:43 AM
Please tell me how I can learn what the UL listings mean.

TIa,
Molo

jwelectric
07-09-2007, 11:03 AM
Here (http://www.ul.com/lighting/categories.html) is a good starting point

leejosepho
07-09-2007, 01:48 PM
I wonder what code is for insulating lights like this. Most of the new lights that I see have a layer of insulation with a reflective coating on one side. This is usually found between the light fixture and the wall/ceiling. I wonder if this reflective layer of insulation is required where the fixture is larger than the receptacle, which is so often the case with light fixtures. Does anybody know about the requirements for this?

I believe the issue there is simply that of keeping heat away from combustible material(s), and that would mean the physical size/shape/construction of the insulator is determined accordingly regardless of the size of the box behind it ... and a UL listing simply means the fixture and or some integral component is believed safe.

sbrn33
07-10-2007, 05:07 AM
I think the insulation is there to direct heat away from the wiring.
I believe you need to replace the receptacle with a GFCI.
If you do stay with that existing fixture install some compact fluorescent lamps as that will cut down on the heat also.
Other than that I would say you have done fine with what you had to work with.

molo
07-10-2007, 06:01 AM
The receptacle will be replaced with a GFCI, it makes sense that heat is the concern, I will do like you said and go with the compact flourescents or a low-heat bulb like that.

Thanks for the suggestion,
Molo