PEX Pictures

[seaneys]

Hello,

I'm a DIYer (why should the plumbers have all of the fun). I'm using PEX for a large portion of my project.

Are there any good books or pictures of PEX configurations? I really like using PEX, but it just seems to be a bit 'messy'. The only feedback I have from the inspector is that he really find PEX to be a little disorganized and chaotic. I'd like it to be as 'clean' as possible.

Thanks,
Steve

[Cass]

Grumpy, what PEX do you use? The annealed copper rings will never let go.....well maybe 100 years or so.

Do you like my never word.

[OldPete]

I'm a plumber (why should I offer free info?)
Strong chance that most advice you'll get is from other DIY'ers.
BUT...hint....look online for manufacterers (Zurn, Wirsbo).
I'll use PEX for baseboard heating, where the fittings are exposed in plain sight.
Personally, I wouldn't recommend using PEX inside walls or ceilings...years ago there was a "new" product (pb) that worked very well for a few years, until it started seeping inside structures..the crimp rings didn't hold up.
However, if this is plumbing for your kids tree-house...have at it!
If the "garden hose" thingy doesn't work out...you can always call a plumber.
We enjoy having all that "fun".

I didn't know this was a Plumbers-only forum. I guess DIYers shouldn't ask advice here then? :mad:

[Terry]

It is a DIY Forum

[geniescience]

pex design guide DIY at http://www.toolbase.org/Design-Construction-Guides/Plumbing/pex-design-guide

5 meg size PDF . Not for plumbers.

david

[Cass]

Grumpy,
I just got off the phone with the shark bite tech people and shark bites are good to 200 F. So if your concerned and the temps will go over 200 use them at your own risk. They can be taken on and off as many times as needed but I was told to check the O ring for damage. If it is damaged it will leak.

This is a DIY forum and you don't have to give any advice if it bothers you.

[Basement_Lurker]

It is a DIY Forum


Poor Terry....so much squabbling on his forum as of late :(

[OldPete]

Terry, thank you for clearing that up. I often question if I should ask things here because I find the resident "plumbers" to take a "You're only a DIY/Weekend Warrior LOL" attitude.

Thanks again for clearing that up. :)

Pete

[OldPete]

For the record, Pex has been used in Europe for decades before it became more popular here. Wall hung boilers and water heaters have also... it isn't "new" technology -- just new to this country.

[OldPete]

Fair enough... :)

I also agree with the fittings issue. I think the crimp style shouldn't be out-lawed. They simply aren't going to hold up IMHO. The expansion method is good, but the APR method is best (where the brass sleeve comes up and over the expansion. I ended up going with the expansion rings (ProPex) -- and I did bury them in ceilings and walls... so I guess in a few years I'll be hopeful that all went well.

I am in love with my wall-mounted all-in-one. I wish I could do the same in this house.

Take care.

[frenchie]

[B]...to his credit, I have yet to be censured.

Now that was funny - read the whole thread over again, Grumpy.

:)

[jadnashua]

I don't think anyone here, at least the moderators, suggest people do things illegally, and I object to your saying that. One of the things that has always bugged me is for someone to say "because I told you to", and not give an explaination. If, after the explaination as to why it should be done a particular way people choose to do it not to code or best practices, we can't go and give them any grief. if you do not wish to offer help, you can leave.

There is often more than one way to do a job. Someone without the special tool for the job a pro might own and use with skill will take longer to perform the task, and he may not get as good a visual result. When it is risky, and they ask, we try to resolve their problem.

On some jobs, even if they have to do it two or three times, it ends up being less expensive than hiring a plumber. But, even with the extra work, they've learned a lesson that makes the next job easier and quicker. There are very few people that can always get it right the first time, but with proper study and some inherent skill, many many people can produce a good product. The fact that it takes them longer is their problem. Fixing or enhancing one's own home can be a great source of pride. Often, a DIY'er can end up with a more robust result because they end up using a heavier gauge material than a pro would because he knows it will work with the lighter gauge material, or he is trying to keep his profit margins up.

So, don't discount personal initiative, do offer guidance, and explaination, or maybe some levity, but keep your other remarks to yourself...

My personal perspective on things.

[frenchie]

I've been looking for something online to exchange idea's...new tech, that kinda thing

You might want to check out the Wall:

http://forums.invision.net/index.cfm?CFID=3117229&CFTOKEN=47f0ea4-91161fbf-a0ab-4981-bbeb-6ba874a202e1&CFApp=2l&

I've seen a dozen licensed plumbers argue for pages about pex vs copper, over there.

[geniescience]

I don't think anyone here .... do things illegally .... choice of words.

i think pretty much everywhere in the world a person can repair their own home as they see fit, but a professional has laws and regulatory constraints to contend with. At some point homeowners have to bend to laws too, even in terms of fixing their own home, but the limits are not SO clear that everyone can see them all at the same time. So, I understand it may be galling to professionals, to see it happen, and to see people talking about it fairly openly too, and often without full knowledge of the dangers to public health and to themselves. However the word illegal is too strong. Even unlawful would be too strong a characterization.

David

[master plumber mark]

Mr Grumpy
Their is no law yet that makes you have a liscense to
go into HD or LOWES and do your own plumbing...
its simply not going to happen

so PLEASE attempt to get over it.

people are going to do whatever they want to
and you can piss and moan about it till
he// freezes over and its not going to change anything...

this site has had some lively
debates on just about everything and no one seems
to turn advice into a dire warnings and stern lectures very often......although occasionialy it happens

but if you feel that its beneath your expertise to talk to
others that are less qualified.......I am sure that their are
other sites that would be more to to your likeing

I dont care wether I am talking to a
Liscensed plumber or some weekend warrior
or some panzie in San Fransisco that has never
even taken the lid off his tiolet tank.......

I have ended up working for a number of people
that contacted me from being on this site..by
trying to be personable and half way likeable.......

it really works.


Have you considered how many accidents have been advoided
because people have had a place to go to like this?????


Its better than nothing for the fools that know nothing
but will still will rush in and try........

[OldPete]

Grumpy, It's an older Baxi Luna -- the Combi -- the gas bill is much improved, by about 1/2 I would say -- It isn't a condensing model (but I wish it was).

Next week I have to do an annual on it (clean and flush, etc.). I've had it in service for 3 winters now and each one has been great! :)

[seaneys]

choice of words.

i think pretty much everywhere in the world a person can repair their own home as they see fit, but a professional has laws and regulatory constraints to contend with. At some point homeowners have to bend to laws too, even in terms of fixing their own home, but the limits are not SO clear that everyone can see them all at the same time. So, I understand it may be galling to professionals, to see it happen, and to see people talking about it fairly openly too, and often without full knowledge of the dangers to public health and to themselves. However the word illegal is too strong. Even unlawful would be too strong a characterization.

David

Hello,

Nothing against the pros, but I have a few repairs in my house that were professionally done by the previous homeowner that, in hind site, do not meet code. Two of them were actually spotted by the inspector when he reviewed the underfloor plumbing that I put in a few weeks ago. I took his suggestion to resolve the issues even though they were grandfathered.

DIYers and Pros both cut corners and do things of poor quality and even illegally.

In my community, it is entirely legal for me to do the work as long it is permitted and inspected. I've noticed the inspectors and village tend to work a little more closely with the DIYers; I basically had to include a check list on my prints to help ensure that I understood the code.

Steve

[seaneys]

Hello,

I'm a DIYer (why should the plumbers have all of the fun). I'm using PEX for a large portion of my project.

Are there any good books or pictures of PEX configurations? I really like using PEX, but it just seems to be a bit 'messy'. The only feedback I have from the inspector is that he really find PEX to be a little disorganized and chaotic. I'd like it to be as 'clean' as possible.

Thanks,
Steve

It's true there are risks about PEX. I'm really not that concerned about PEX leaking in the walls. As a DIYer I seriously suspect I'll be rearranging the bathrooms significantly in the next 25 years. Yes.. This is abnormal..

I have a great article from my earlier career in hydraulics outlining the downsides of using hose for hydraulic systems. It's true there were some bumps, but it would be considered a little insane now to use hard tube for high pressure hydraulics.

One of the strange reasons I like it is that I can work on it easily and quietly at night after the kids are asleep. Dropping a 10' section of copper on a concrete floor does not make me a popular parent. I can snake PEX around corners and inside of walls without bothering the bambinos.

I also REALLY like having a single run for each outlet. I'm not using any PEX tees or couplings within the walls.

Steve

[Cass]

I also like PEX when doing rehabs, I don't do any new work except for the occasional addition.

I will say this, some rehabs are is areas that are, shall we say, less than desireable to live in and the if there are or could be rodents in the home, for some reason they like to nibble / chew on PEX.

I have heard that in some places PEX has been banned because of that.

I have repaired a few mouse munch leaks over the years on the old gray PB / Qest.

[hj]

When it comes to taking advice consider the source.

[construct30]

The United States has always let people do what they could on their own property as long as it doesn't harm or disturb anyone else. I think we have a constitution or something like that. I have been a plumber for 15 years. We have no liscense here as of yet. In most states even when they liscense people you are allowed to work on most stuff in your own home, just not for anyone else.

DIYers are no threat to a professional. Have fun and be safe ask when you need help.

By the way PEX is a tested proven product as good as any other if used correctly. Copper is not perfect regardless of what many of us plumbers say. I for one like cast iron pipe with lead joints for drains instead of PVC or ABS. Just kidding, but the same arguments are made with every new product. Some work some don't, but PEX has been around long enough for prove itself.

Mark

[GrumpyPlumber]

Well, I opted to post relative to topic,
Just popped into another forum, guy says his new PEX is sweating like crazy.
I thought that was one of PEX's selling points...no?

[jadnashua]

It is a better insulator than copper by a long shot, but run enough cold water through it and it will sweat like anything else.

[GrumpyPlumber]

I buy that, but I'd hate to get the call: "I thought you said it doesn't do this...." this week.
I go way outta my wey to make sure customers get all the details..I also tend to be untrusting of MFG claims...let's face it, their in it for the money.

[Terry]

PEX is here to stay.
It's a good product.
I've been using the Wirsbo, though they've change to name to Uponor.

http://www.uponor-usa.com/wirsbo/

They don't sweat or transfer heat as much as copper.
It runs quiet.
It's been around for over thirty years.