PEX versus Copper

[Aumint]

I am in a rural high elevation area of Wyoming installing my own plumbing. Is there any reason why I should install copper rather then Aquapex in my water distribution system?

Thank You.

[geniescience]

no. final answer.:)

[prashster]

Lots of arguments for PEX (easier install, maneuverable around obstacles, fewer seams, no oxidation, etc). Only argument I've heard for copper is that it has a longer proven track record.

That being said, I'm adding a bar sink in my hall and considering pex vs copper, and I gotta say I'm leaning towards copper just because if and when I sell, it won't be questioned by a prejudiced prospective buyer.

[Aumint]

Thanks, I plan to use PEX and just want to be sure I am not overlooking anything.

[Gary Slusser]

I gotta say I'm leaning towards copper just because if and when I sell, it won't be questioned by a prejudiced prospective buyer.

By then more folks may hear more about all the pin hole water leaks and water damage problems with copper, and may be prejudiced toward it.

The use of PEX etc. is called progress and only fear of the unknown, a dictatorship or ignorance (lack of knowledge) stops mankind from progressing.

If it were me, I'd go with homerun PEX using a central manifold, no branch and tee type install.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

:eek: There are reports coming from out west that they are doing testing on the top 3 manufacturers of PEX to see if certain chemicals are leaching basically POISON into the potable water systems.

The only reason why I would venture to say this is being done is due to an elevated rise in cases of CANCER. :eek:

70+ year copper systems in my area without problems, no pinholes. If your water is eating through copper pipe in your area.....you're not going to live long anyway. GOOD LUCK

[prashster]

'Murder for a jar of red rum' spelled backwards...

If yr scared of Polyethylene, use cpvc - oh wait, that has phthalates. Cancer there too.

Use copper - oh wait, copper leaching into the water can cause kidney damage.

Pick yr poison.

Gimme a break. I subscribe to the "Dread Pirate Roberts" school of building up immunity through small doses of poison over a long time ;) But I'm no doctor.

Who drinks tap water nowadays anyway ;)

[Dunbar Plumbing]

We're all dying.

I quit drinking tap water years ago after we did a tour at the water treatment plant.

Main reason: what they can't remove from the water. Certain chemicals no matter what aggressive treatment you give, it does not come out. The chlorine levels are so high coming from the plant it's deplorable. There's a reason why they call my area a cancer belt.

[Gary Slusser]

:eek: There are reports coming from out west that they are doing testing on the top 3 manufacturers of PEX to see if certain chemicals are leaching basically POISON into the potable water systems.

The only reason why I would venture to say this is being done is due to an elevated rise in cases of CANCER. :eek:
WOW, I learn something every day! Dumb me, here I thought it was politics and wanting an excuse to replace all their pinhole leaking corroded copper with more copper and job/income protectionism.

BTW, did you hear someone say that fumes from soldering fluxes and solder causes cancer? If we don't stop all the honey bees from dying, we won't have to worry about it very long. We'll get slim'n trim and starve to death before cancer can git us. I heard someone says sunlight and preservatives in store bought donuts, cupcakes and pies gives you cancer.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Make sure you contact the ones doing the tests on PEX for CANCER and make sure you include cupcakes donuts and pies.

Good work gary, you're on target for the bait I just threw out in the mud puddle.








*heads to hostess outlet*

[Gary Slusser]

I quit drinking tap water years ago after we did a tour at the water treatment plant.

Main reason: what they can't remove from the water. Certain chemicals no matter what aggressive treatment you give, it does not come out.

Absolutely incorrect.

A.... Steve, you been breathing flux and solder smoke too long. You sure that wasn't the waste water treatment plant?

[geniescience]

so the summary is if you know of some reason why copper isn't suited to the local water conditions, you have Pex. And if pex becomes, in the long long term, a product that doesn't perform as expected, you'll have other options then.

FWIW, I'd install the nominally designated as 3/4" diameter pex since its inside diameter is quite small, both 1/2" and 3/4". There is no downside, not even cost. Advantages are less pressure required to get the same volume of water, perhaps less noise when water is flowing.

david

[dubldare]

WOW, I learn something every day! Dumb me, here I thought it was politics and wanting an excuse to replace all their pinhole leaking corroded copper with more copper and job/income protectionism.

BTW, did you hear someone say that fumes from soldering fluxes and solder causes cancer? If we don't stop all the honey bees from dying, we won't have to worry about it very long. We'll get slim'n trim and starve to death before cancer can git us. I heard someone says sunlight and preservatives in store bought donuts, cupcakes and pies gives you cancer.


And this from the people who say:

"Yeah, it's safe to drink softened water. A daily serving of softened water has no more sodium in it than a piece of white bread...But don't use softened water on your lawn, 'cuz the sodium will turn the grass brown"

[Gary Slusser]

And this from the people who say:

"Yeah, it's safe to drink softened water. A daily serving of softened water has no more sodium in it than a piece of white bread...But don't use softened water on your lawn, 'cuz the sodium will turn the grass brown"

They're correct too.

FYI, there's 7.85 mg/l added sodium per grain per gallon of ion exchange; that's roughly a quart of water. Example, 20 gpg*7.85=157 mg of sodium; a slice of whit bread, 120=160 mg of sodium. Check food and beverage lables and you'll see much more sodium than that.

Proof...
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317
http://www.awqinc.com/sodium_softening.html
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/H20QL2/MF1094.PDF

[master plumber mark]

everything is trying to kill you

the air , the water, the soil, other animals,
inscets, microbes......

but because of our advanced medicines,
everyone is living the longest ever known

200 years ago people natrually died like flies
on every street corner. at 35-40 yrs old..

very few people lived to be 80 or 100...
children died all the time at childbirth or
from the diseases that were around...very sad times.....

mother nature herself sends all sorts of
microscopic viruses, plagues, ect at us all day long
trying to erradicate us...... to thin us out........

So dont worry so much about whats in your PEX or COPPER water because its probably as near to perfect as possible.

Just Look at the quality of the water systems from around
the third world..... you might as well be drinking from a sewer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------



So...I would rather die quickly than have a slow death
being cared for in some nurseing home at 95 years old.....


Go out and have a doughnut , some coffe, a couple strips of bacon and smoke a cigarette....

you will feel much better...


something has got to kill you....

why die healthy???

[bnoji]

I think they are referring to plasticizers leaching into the water from the polyethylene. Here's a page that mentions their potential health risks:

http://tuberose.com/Plastics.html

I'm not a sicentist, and my material science experience is mainly in metals, so I have no idea if any of this is applicable to Pex.

[Rancher]

I'll drink the tap water, cuz I'm going to die in my sleep...

Just like my Granddad did, peasefully in his sleep, not like the rest of the screaming passengers in his bus when he drove over the cliff.

Rancher

[Gary Slusser]

I think they are referring to plasticizers leaching into the water from the polyethylene. Here's a page that mentions their potential health risks:

http://tuberose.com/Plastics.html

I'm not a sicentist, and my material science experience is mainly in metals, so I have no idea if any of this is applicable to Pex.

I would expect no less from: This self-help alternative medicine site....

No matter that no one but alternative medicine types can find any plasticizers leaching from plastics used in plumbing or water treatment, the medical field, the food and beverage packaging industry etc..

[jimbo]

Well, when god invented electricity for refrigerators, it helped cut down on food poisoning from spoiled meat. But the smoke from the power plants causes some illnesses, including cancer. It's a tradeoff, and it's called "progress". We still enjoy the electricity, and we continue to make progress to eliminate the smog. One way to do that is nuclear, which overall is much cleaner, but it has the issue of fuel disposal. More progress.

There will be some missteps. Polybutylene was a misstep. There will be others. More progress.

PEX is no longer what you would call "new". We will find out soon enough if there are any chemical leaching problems. A high quality carbon-based filter rated for lead and VOC's used on your drinking water will take away those worries. And if you are talking bottled water, dont even go there. Recent reports in the news indicate that much of it is bottled right out of municipal supplies. Maybe a little filtering, a few mineral added for flavor.

Is PEX just slightly easier to damage if you poke it with a nail....yes. We will just have to get used to that, like we got used to wearing seatbelts. More progress.

Take vaccines. Literally hundreds of millions of people are live today, or at least lived to a ripe old age, due to NOT dying of polio, smallpox, etc.etc. Very occasionally, does a person get ill or even die because their genes were adverse to the vaccine? Yes. More progress. Your choice.

Sorry, it isn't Sunday, so I shouldn't be preaching!

If I were in your shoes, I would evaluate cost differences, the cost of filtering if I thought that was important, and the cost and ease of installation, and make a decision accordingly. I try to avoid sensationialistic , non-scientific reports on these issues.

[Gary Slusser]

I think they are referring to plasticizers leaching into the water from the polyethylene.

I forgot this.... Polyethylene has been used in well and city potable water systems since the 1960s. IIRC, PEX is a German invention and their?Euorpean water quality regulations are tighter than our EPA regs. And Pex has been used in Europe for roughly 35+ years.

BTW, PB is the most widely used tubing/pipe in the world, and not an inch of it is used in the US.

[cyepsen]

I just plumbed my entire house with PEX - a great experience. Install went fast - no leaks. Its quiet. I used a modified manual method. I have a manual across the basement, with 3/4" runs to each each bath/kitchen/utility. I ran 3/4 right up to each tub and shower.

Regarding the PEX and water chemical issue - I keep thinking about the bottled water we all drink three times a day. It sits in plastic a lot longer that the water in my house sits in the PEX tubing.

[Annalea]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
So...I would rather die quickly than have a slow death
being cared for in some nurseing home at 95 years old.....


Go out and have a doughnut , some coffe, a couple strips of bacon and smoke a cigarette....

you will feel much better...


something has got to kill you....

why die healthy???

Only trouble is, the law prevents your health care providers from allowing you to die a nice, natural death. They have to do everything they can to keep you alive, even if you're 90 and only alive because of your meds and your pacemaker. Just went through this with my grandma last year, so the topic is fresh in my mind . . . ;)

But as for PEX? . . . yeah. Drop in the bucket.

[ballvalve]

The PRACTICAL answer she wanted is: copper freezes and breaks RELIABLY. Pex does not. Use PEX.