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Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-22-2004, 06:53 AM
I need to replace the closet flange on my hall toilet and all the things I have read say you have to seal it, attach it, glue it, etc, but none tell me what to attach it with.......is there a special cement that you use to do this.....and do I dig out the old concrete first? if so how much? and what is the best tool to use for that? I am assuming that it has to be flush with the floor so I am thinking I need to remove enough of the concrete to make it flush with the floor but I don't know....and how long do you have to let it cure before you can put the toilet back on?......it seems to me it would be better if it were somhow bolted to the cement but I have not seen any forums that suggest that or how it would be done......can someone help this granny wanna be weekend warrior?

Deb
09-22-2004, 10:06 AM
This granny is happy to give you advise. :)
How this is attached and what kind of material your drain pipes are made of determine how it is repaired. How have you determined that you need a new closet flange? You may be better off checking out flange repair kits that are available.
To replace the flange, all the concrete around the flange will need to be chipped away (this requires at the very least a hammer drill). You need to remove enough concrete so that you have room to work. You need to be able to cut the old flange out and reattach--you may have to go to a horizontal pipe since alot of closet flanges are close connected to the closet bend. Each different type of material has its own special glue. The closet flange sits on top of the finish floor. The closet flange MUST be bolted to the floor with concrete anchors. The toilet bolts to that.
So, if you cannot get a repair flange ring to work, this may be beyond something that you want to tackle. Replacing a flange on concrete is NOT fun.
Deb
The Pipewench

LonnythePlumber
09-22-2004, 10:18 AM
I don't want to get in between grannies but if the pipe is cast iron won't a mechanical CI flange work? And why does she need to replace it? Perhaps just the slot is broken and a spanner flange would work. What kind of pipe seems to determine the repair.

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-22-2004, 11:58 AM
Thank you both for replying......I can use all the help I can get......I would send you pictures if I could figure out how to....the flange is completely broken off the floor.......I have no idea what the pipe is......but the closet flange is some kind of metal and its broken.....it looks like it was never bolted just cemented in.........I went to home depot and bought a new closet flange and bolts as it has holes for bolts on it.....its brass.......they only had brass and looked like pvc plastic...and I didn't think plastic would be good....you may know something I don't on that.......just seems to me the brass metal would be better......the lip on the new flange is about an inch and half deep and pretty thin about 1/8 inch thick I would say........so I figured I would have to dig out that deep at least to set it in.......but was wondering if I needed to cement it again before I bolt it......what is best to use for digging out old cement if the hammer drill is the least it sounds like it may not be the best to use.....I used a special cement saw that I attached to my craftsman all in one for my tile grout removal and it cut right through it......could I use the same thing to do the cement? ..its great for cutting a straight line....I don't know how easy the circle is going to be........I have the sears cutting tool and I just put the saw on it and removed the grout.....it was not fun.......but I got it done....and I had to vacuum up the entire room afterwards it went everywhere.....but I got it out.....or should I rent a tool that is made for that at home depot?...I have a drill if there is an attachment that works on it for cement and I have all kinds of attachments for the cutting tool.......it has a bit for concrete and is a circular saw/router/free hand scroll saw and its called the all in one cutting tool so I could set it to cut a circle but I don't know if that is best....it doesn't look like it would cut deep enough....I think renting a tool would be lots less than hiring a plumber ......so I am open to that.....when you get a chance let me know what you think.......thanks again.

LonnythePlumber
09-22-2004, 12:10 PM
Your flange has to be compatible with the pipe. Do not use a PVC glue flange for cast iron pipe. Deb the Pipewench will probably say a cast iron or PVC flange that goes on the outside of the pipe and tightens onto the pipe. The flange is then anchored into the cement. You should not need to break out very much more concrete.

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-22-2004, 12:54 PM
link (http://pak02.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Login?event=ViewFilm&filmId=65391.880.1095874379506.1&locale=en_US)
see if this works to get the pictures????????

Deb
09-22-2004, 02:48 PM
No picture.
What is the inside diameter of the pipe that we are dealing with? We have different options depending on pipe size. The mechanical CI flange will work well if all of the old flange is gone and you have 4" (which is probably if it is cast). This fits inside and tightens against the walls of the 4" to secure it. ALL flanges, no matter what type, will need to be anchored to the concrete, so you always need to be careful that you do not take out too much concrete around the pipe or you will have nothing to anchor to. Try to identify the type of material we are dealing with too. Like Lonny said, the repair and type of flange you need depend on the material we are working with.
Deb
The Pipewench

e-plumber
09-22-2004, 03:40 PM
link (http://pak02.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Login?event=ViewFilm&filmId=65391.880.1095874379506.1&locale=en_US)
see if this works to get the pictures????????

To post pictures directly here in this forum without providing a link, use the icon in the message composing area. You can "Insert Image" or "Insert Hyperlink".

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-22-2004, 04:30 PM
ok I think I got it attached......when I click on the insert picture it just gives me a http script......it measures 4 inches

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-23-2004, 09:15 AM
do you mean the flange goes down in the pipe rather than on the outside of it so you don't have to dig the concrete out????? :confused:

Deb
09-23-2004, 09:41 AM
Yes! Let's put a smiley face on that one! :D
They make a flange that you can insert inside the 4" pipe and it has tighteners that will tighten it to the existing pipe. The flange will still need to be anchored to the concrete floor with concrete anchors of some kind, but that is generally fairly easy.
Also, I always double nut closet bolts--I attach the closet bolts to the flange with one washer and nut and then set the toilet and attach the secong set. Years down the road when the toilet needs to be removed for some reason, you will most likely be able to get the nuts off without hacksawing them off.
Deb
The Pipewench

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-23-2004, 12:53 PM
I feel like singing the Hallelujah chorus and dancin a jig......so no concrete just bolts and tools??? I will let choo know how I survive the plumbing supply k? Thank-you thank-you thank-you!!! :D ({{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}<------squshy cyber hugs......

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-23-2004, 01:45 PM
{{{{{{{{{Lonnie the plumber too}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-23-2004, 02:34 PM
ok this is what they tell me is the CI mechanical flange .....it looks plastic but its a hard plastic.....is this the critter I need? there was a plumber at the supply place that said I needed to file down the top of the pipe to make sure no lead was sticking up.....I don't think any is sticking up but there is excess concrete that looks like what the old one was seated in.....if this is the right thing I will go ahead and put my tile in and then install it.........thanks for all your help ........you have just been super :)

Granny2HWBLGJJ
09-23-2004, 02:51 PM
but I forgot to ask.......do I need to clean the soil drian and if so what do you use to do that? can't say that I have ever scrubbed the inside of a toilet pipe so I don't have a clue what is ok to use to do it.......bleach? comet? green scrub pad? yuk but I figure if we flush that sorta thing we should be able to use it on the actual cleaning of the pipe if that needs to be done to put in the CI flange........it looks like the wax from the wax ring may have run down the sides of the pipe ....I know I probly sound so silly to you experienced folks.....but I won't know if I don't ask..... :o

Deb
09-23-2004, 02:55 PM
That's the critter. There is always alot of discussion about the pros and cons of a metal flange (rusts out) or a plastic flange (breaks easier). If everyone preferred one kind, there would only be one kind. This should be just fine. A concrete bit with some concrete anchors to secure the flange to the concrete and you're set.
Deb
The Pipewench

Granny2HWBLGJJ
10-11-2004, 07:13 PM
getting ready to thin set tomorrow and don't want to blow the toilet installation in the process.....I have the holes marked to predrill and will set it as soon as I know it's right.....
Thanks,
Laura

kokopup
10-11-2004, 07:48 PM
Hey granny, weren't you just over in the John Bridge forum about this?

LonnythePlumber
10-11-2004, 08:46 PM
She loves us both.

Granny2HWBLGJJ
10-17-2004, 04:35 PM
It seems that tile folks and plumbers don't always see eye to eye.....but I figure plumbers see more leaks than do tile folks....and it never hurts to get two opinions or more huh?...however I have almost more information than I can handle on tiling...and it was not fun...I have the floor done except for the grout and then I need to know if I can set the toilet back in place the next day?...and you are right Lonnie my friend ......I do love you both :) now I have one more teeney weeney lil question.....someone said that thicker wax rings are better.....what do you think? should I go to the plumbing place and get a thick one.......the one I bought at home depot looks about an inch and half deep,,,
thanks c-ya in cyberspace,
Laura

LonnythePlumber
10-17-2004, 05:58 PM
I should point out that plumbers don't always agree amongst themselves. Several of my firmest opinions have changed because of the information I have learned from other plumbers. I am pleasantly surprised at how accurate the plumbing information is from the tile setters and appreciate cx,Jim, John and others posting on this site.
I prefer the regular bowl wax without insert. Too thick of a wax can restrict the opening. Since you have a new flange I project that most of us would agree that a regular bowl wax is appropriate for your installation.

jadnashua
10-17-2004, 06:07 PM
for a properly installed flange (i.e, on top of the finished floor), a thicker wax ring just makes it harder to install the toilet (and messier if you ever take it out). I just put in my second toilet, and used a Fluidmaster waxless job. I figured that I'd be taking the toilet out to paint, do the baseboard, etc, and why scrape all that crud off and put in a new ring each time. Time will tell if it gives me problems. Note that it has a little give in it, so if the toilet gets a good wack, it won't mess up the wax seal.

Granny2HWBLGJJ
10-17-2004, 09:59 PM
Thanks so much .......can I install the toilet the day after I grout? My husband actually bought one of those no wax things but it said for 3 inch and our drain is 4 inch so I took it back and got the wax kit with new bolts etc.....anyway......I hope I never have to take the toilet up again.....you just never know though.....guess I am gonna clean up the mess if I have to take it up...can't be any worser than the first one was or cleaning out the soil drain......I agree its good to have more than one opinion and appreciate all the help tons.......it just gets a lil over whelming at times....there are sooooooo many products.....makes you wanna call up your parents and say tell me what to do ya know?>....cept can't do that no mo...my husbands parents are still with us but neither one of them are very good at DIY.....sure does seem like we become the parents all to soon huh? I don't think I could have ever done this without these forums.....I think I would just be without a hall bath until I saved more and could pay a pro.....so it's really great that you are here....everyone seems to really appreciate you Lonnie in the JB forums too....they all say nice things about you and to you.....well I have to drive to fort hood tomorrow ......have had the grandchildren all weekend while mom and dad get the housing ready to turn in .....they have to spit shine the home before they turn in keys or they get fined big.....so grout will have to wait until tuesday......they couldn't get all finished and I need to go get mom for these lil darlins...I will check as soon as I can and see when I can set the potty back in......thanks again guys .......you are just terrific folks!
c-ya in cyberspace,
Laura

LonnythePlumber
10-18-2004, 03:29 AM
You have to be nice on the John Bridges forum or some of the tile setters will get in your face. I spent my last year in the Army at Fort Hood, U.S. Army Infantry Captain.

jadnashua
10-18-2004, 06:19 PM
Humm, the Fluidmaster waxless ring assembly I bought came configured for 4". YOu remove a part (and throw it away) to make it fit into a 3" drain line. You should be fine with what you have.

Granny2HWBLGJJ
10-23-2004, 02:39 PM
Lonnie......My hat is off to the military and not just cause they risk life and limb but cause they have to clean everything so spit shine clean to move.....it was nuts......we spent 3 days cleaning and that was after my son and his wife had already cleaned for three days.....and she is a good home maker.......they are super picky in the military.....and my son had to wash his desert jacket three times before they would accept it to be turned in.....and drive 15 miles three times so almost a 100 miles just to turn in gear...with gas as high as it is ......that is a crime in itself to do that to a soldier......I told them when they move from Germany back state side we are paying someone to do this....they were trying to save the 300 to pay the pros to do it...and use that money elsewhere.....it was not worth it to me....I will send them the money next time.....anyway I have the grout in .....in my bathroom and am wondering when I can set my toilet back in????? also if the new toilet does not set right on the wall, do I need to bring the wall out to meet the back of the tank? the new toilet does not look as long as the old one......thanks......

jadnashua
10-23-2004, 03:24 PM
The "normal" toilet flange is set so that the bolts that hold the toilet in place are 12" from the wall. if yours are that distance, then when you install it, it will be as the manufacturer designed it. Depending on the manufacturer, the space behin d the toilet can vary - 3/4" is what most Toto toilets have. It typically has a space behind it, if installed properly.

There was a documentary I saw somewhere on military housing - it seems that the inspectors often run a cleaning service on the side, so if you don't use them to clean the place, they get extra picky - most people give up in frustration and pay. Should be a crime, if it isn't, but most people don't have the time to fight it.