Have you seen this?

Today while visiting a customer for an unrelated problem I saw a piping arrangement that rather worried me. The customer had a water softener installed. The installer/dealer had run the discharge line from the water softener and directly connected it to a 3" PVC stack by drilling and tapping the PVC then installing a 3/8" MIP X 3/8" barb fitting connecting the hose to the barb. This screams "cross connection" in my mind. The dealer's rep I spoke with on the phone said, "thats the way we always do it!" and hung up on me. Am I wrong here? We always indirect the discharge to a floor drain, sump pit, laundry tub or mop sink. This is the first direct connection I've come across. I guess I'm just curious as to whether this is done in other parts of the country too.

Now I know the discharge line is just that...dishcharge, but it seems to me that bacteria could travel back into the system when the softener is between cycles.

Before I report this to the General Health District I want to make sure I dot my Ts and cross my eyes...or something of that nature.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Cross Connection

Yes I see it quite often on cast iron and PVC drains under houses and in basements. The Culligan, Rain Soft and Eco Water system installers around here love doing this. The owner of the local Culligan branch stopped doing it after I talked to him about it. He finally even went and took the plumbing exams to get his plumbing contractors license. However the other installers where like talking to a fence post and the inspector wasn't much better. A short call to the state plumbing inspector and state health department has helped the situation some. Every once in a while we will get a call to go install a softener loop and provide a drain for Eco Water or the local appliance dealer on one of their installs. In my area you are not allowed to cut into any water line or drain line without a plumbing license, unless you own the house yourself (excluding commercial or rental property). Most of these water conditioning and sprinkler (irrigation) installers here are no more than an appliance dealers or laborers out there chopping into water lines and drains, compromising their safety without installing the proper backflow or airgap devices. Talking to the Health Department and the state inspector I believe made a big difference, but I still see a new install done this way every once in a great while.

drain

Any inspector "worth his salt" would reject it. I had a customer who had an RO unit installed. The installer drilled a hole in a 3" floor drain vent and stuck the tubing into it. Even though there is no way that vent could ever back up anywhere near the level of the connection, the inspector still turned it down and required an "indirect" drain, and a proper repair of the vent to eliminate the hole. Which given its location was a "huge job".

I guess what really got me was when I called the installer to alert him to this and he said, "thats the way we always do it" and hung up on me. I've notified the plumbing inspector's office and guess its in their hands now. Apparently the softener was installed after the final inspection.

There's a floor drain not more than 8" away from the softener that the discharge can be indirected over but rather than doing it the right and easiest way, they ran the discharge up, through the floor joist and across the basement to a waste stack. Just goes to show that the plumber I apprenticed under was right.....Work SMARTER not harder! lol thanks for the input.

Yes any water treatment equipment drain line that is hard plumbed to any drain is not right but... assuming the floor drain will accept the volume of water now and into the distant future isn't right either. And how do you plumb the required air gap using a floor drain? How do you prevent the drain line from being inadvertently moved off the floor drain by mistake?

The drain line should be connected to the sewer system unless prevented locally. And going up from the equipment is the standard install in most areas. In most cases if for nothing more than to keep is out of harms way.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Two 1" split rings, a bit of 3/8" all thread rod, two drop in anchors, a bit of 1" PVC and two 90s....you've got your airgap. A 3" floor drain (minimum size allowed here) should be more than capable of handling the discharge, if not there's a clog issue going on.

I would love to see a diagram of the makeup you are describing.

I see that done all the f*+~king time and it pisses me right off. Culligan is one of the worst, there are a few locals that do it too....

They drill and tap the clean out plug for a 1/2" nipple, use a swing check and hook the backwash line to the check valve. Yeah, the bacteria will NEVER go through that swing check. Right......

I have a customer that had fecal coliform due to a piss poor backwash line hook up, she damn near puked when she saw the dookie on the nipple screwed into the clean out.