View Full Version : Pocket door Question
03-14-2007, 09:54 AM
Which is the best brand of pocket door frames to buy that will last and best all around.
03-14-2007, 04:42 PM
I put one in by Johnson (if I remember correctly). They had a bunch of options. I got one with ball bearings rated for up to a 200# door (although mine isn't). Get dual track ball bearing and one spec'ed for at least the weight of the door - a heavier duty one isn't that much more.
03-19-2007, 11:16 AM
I am remodeling my master bath and would like to use a 3/8" glass shower door. It would have a door and a fixed panel, both combined totaling about 60". The glass door portion would mount to a wall to the left which would have a stud behind it in the required location and therefore not be a problem. The fixed panel would mount to the curb underneath and a perpendicular wall to the right which would have a pocket door sliding into it... and therefore not a traditional stud to secure the fixed glass panel to.
There is a pic attached (assuming I did it right :D ) so above makes more sense.
So my question is, will the framework of the pocket door wall be sturdy enough to support the weight of the glass panel? It seems to me that if I use a U channel mount for the panel, the force would be distributed over a larger area, and possibly work better than smaller brackets.
03-19-2007, 01:28 PM
The fixed panel doesn't need anywhere near the support as does the heavy swinging one, especially if it doesn't have a stop that would get banged by the door. All the weight would be on the curb. The hassle might be if that wall flexed, but depending on whether it was attached with a channel or brackets it may not be a big deal. You might want to check with the manufacturer and ask their recommendations. Will the glass be going to the ceiling or stop short?
03-21-2007, 07:25 AM
Thanks for the reply. What you said makes sense. I was planning on having the glass stop short of the ceiling, which I assume will potentially cause more stress on the wall if we bump the panel when stepping in and out. Sounds like as long as nothing is bumping into the panel there shouldn't be a problem.
03-27-2007, 09:14 AM
Is a pocket door something that good handy man (with carpentry skills) could do?
Are "kits" available?? I could really use one of those.....in my small bathroom adjoing a bedroom.
03-27-2007, 09:29 AM
I've looked at several company's pocket doors, and I liked, bought, and installed one from here: http://www.johnsonhardware.com/pdindex.htm. You should be able to find the installation instructions there, and decide for yourself. Note, you probably wouldn't want to tile a wall with one of these unless you built a normal 2x4 wall on that side (which is what I did). It makes that end stick out further than the rest of the wall, but that's the price you pay. Get the full ball-bearing version for a heavier door than you plan to use, and it glides smoothly and quietly. I'm sure their version designed for lighter doors works, too, but the cost differential isn't much. You don't need their super heavy duty version unless you've got a massive heavy door, though.
1. If you want a watertight seal, you will have to use a "U" channel anyway.
2. If it is like most door/panels, there will be a top rail integrating everything which will minimize any stresses.
03-29-2007, 09:18 AM
My handy guy says he can do it.....
sLowes big box carrys them apparently...
03-29-2007, 12:55 PM
HD carries a Stanley one, but I wasn't impressed. the Johnson hardware ones come with steel reinforced nailers for the faux studs - much sturdier than the all wood on most of them. They don't warp, either which can be a big deal for the sliding door.
04-02-2007, 09:15 PM
I noticed you mentioned that the pocket door framed wall wouldn't be able to support the weight of a tiled wall too well. I was looking into using the Schluter-Kerdi process for tiling my shower. Are you familiar with this process? There would be substantially less weight involved... do you or anyone think this would work? My bathroom is too tight to build the wall out further as your described. Please see my diagram earlier in this thread to better understand my layout.
04-03-2007, 05:31 AM
and to get even less weight, and a lot more structural strength, buy 2' x 8' Wedi panels and tile them. Search and you will find. Read up on it. Call the company and ask where to buy it. Tell us what you learn. Have a great day.
04-03-2007, 07:10 AM
Thank you so much for your reply. The Wedi panels are something I've never heard of, but after just a couple minutes research sound like the way to go. They're light weight, easy to work with, and save time in the installation. Here is a helpful link:
I gotta start getting ready for work now, but as I find out more, I will post more.
04-03-2007, 09:48 AM
The hassle with framing a pocket door AND retaining the standard wall thickness, is that the small supports need to be installed on their wide side, rather than having say a 2x4's long edge between the walls. Otherwise, there'd be no room for the door! This gives much less strength, since it is across the narrow width of the support. Johnson uses moderately heavy gauge metal wrapped wood studs as opposed to those I saw on a Stanley pocket door, which were just plain pine 1x3 wood. The Johnson metal wrapped studs are much stronger and almost immune to warping. Your tiled wall would be supported by these relatively flimsy supports. On mine, Instead of using their studs, I built the wall out using standard 2x4's. This made that wall thicker, but also made for a standard wall both in thickness for the plumbing, and for strength.
For tile, you don't want any chance of movement, it will either crack the tile or the grout. Once you get tile on a thick piece of Wedi, it would probably work fine, but a strong wall and a pocket door often don't go in the same picture. For less money, and about the same thickness, you could do what I did. The Wedi board is a good product, but you pay a lot for shipping it from Europe to the US distributor.
04-03-2007, 02:00 PM
... a door and a fixed panel .... The fixed panel would mount to the curb underneath and a perpendicular wall to the right which would have a pocket door sliding into it ....
you don't need "support". The glass panel is so strong all by itself that it will help keep the wall strong! At least, each perpendicular piece at that 90 degree angle will strengthen the other one. I siliconed a glass panel onto a painted drywall surface that has flimsy 26 gauge metal studs behind it. No channel ! Looks good.
04-03-2007, 02:09 PM
.... small supports .... A panel of tempered glass, siliconed or fixed anyhow, will give a rigid perpendicular support to a wall that is already strong enough to hold itself up. A tempered glass panel is very rigid on its edge. That gives support to make wall more rigid. It will help the wall, and not "need" the wall for support.
True, if someone kicks the wall and if there is a pocket door there, there is less support inside that wall than with a traditional stud structure. If the wall is tiled, a good kick will start a few cracks happening.
Whether or not cracks will happen with no such impact force, is not ascertainable in advance. I wouldn't want to influence you to build it too strong or too weak, so I'll encourage you to use your own judgement.
04-03-2007, 04:14 PM
It's hard to press against a tiled wall built on 2x4 with cbu on it hard enough to cause the tile to crack or the grout to give up the ghost. You won't have anywhere near that strength with it over a pocket door frame. So, do what you can to strengthen it to preclude that from happening. Tile really does stiffen up the wall, but...
04-03-2007, 05:32 PM
I built a home once with a pocket door as one side of the shower.
It lasted a month before the tile started cracking.
I pulled the pocket door frame out and framed the wall normally, and used a swinging door instead.
04-03-2007, 07:02 PM
That's why I built mine out with a normal 2x4 stud wall. It also allowed me to just fit a 6' tub along that wall. The metal wrapped studs on the Johnson hardware kit are much sturdier than plain wood, but still, I'd be leary.
04-05-2007, 08:22 AM
I have minimal DIY skills which I am developing one step at a time. So to build my first tiled shower, only to take a chance of having to rebuild it down the road, is a chance I don't want to take. It is foreseeable that someone could lose their balance in the shower, hit the wall, and now I've got another project on my hands.
Given my bathroom is only 5' deep to begin with, I'd rather not build the wall further out, although from a structural perspective it is a good idea. I guess I'll just stick with the traditional door. There is room for it to swing, but I just thought it would be more slick having it hidden when it's open.
Not the info I was wanting to hear, but I am glad I heard it. The input from all of you I'm sure will save me some headaches down the road.
ps- If anyone is interested, here's the Wedi US webiste: www.wedicorp.com.
04-22-2007, 06:39 PM
I have been looking further into the Wedi product line.
I would like to use the Wedi in my shower, shower floor (Fundo pan), and lower half of the rest of my walls in the bathroom. There will be drywall on the upper half of the walls, and entire ceiling (including ceiling over shower).
My question is, where the tile/wedi shower walls meet with the drywall ceiling, how to I merge these? Or does it not matter? I am concerned about the steam seeping between the drywall and wedi, leaving mold inside my wall.
Would the Wedi caulking or Wedi tape form a seal between the Wedi board and drywall ceiling? Or am I worried about nothing?
04-23-2007, 05:50 AM
worried about nothing, unless real visible water (condensation) is going to come in contact with the drywall (and its paint layer) more often than can be dried out in the following hours. My opinion.
Most people extend their shower stall wall material right up to the ceiling. Seems you are planning on doing this. Some people actually let tons of steam condensation and water spray get on the small area of drywall that they put above the wall tiles that they stopped at sis feet from the floor and less than two feet from the ceiling.
Then, in the rest of bathroom, are you planning on using Wedi by then stopping it after it almost reaches the ceiling (say, at five or six feet), and then continuing with drywall? So far that is not clear to me. If you wanted to tile the bottom half of the walls everywhere and you wanted a tile ready wall that insulates for heat, like on an exterior wall, I would understand this, but right now I can't figure out what the "need" is.
Steam is not a big big problem in a residential application. Every once in a while, the air gets steamy when you come in and steam it up for a time varying from 5 to 60 minutes; then, after that for hours on end, the place cools down and de-steams itself. The exact opposite happens in a YMCA, a club, a gym, a 24 hour sauna, etc, where there is no break in the pressure. Normally within an hour or two you wouldn't know in a residential situation whether anyone had steamed the place up or not. The walls outside the shower are not subject to large stresses in terms of the water they absorb and then let evaporate or migrate out.
To do something really worthwhile with Wedi, use it instead of drywall for your ceiling, throughout the entire bathroom. Tile it. You get a beautiful effect. Ceilings get a lot of steam condensation.
Ask Wedi what other ways there are to finish Wedi if you don't want to tile it everywhere. Maybe a parging mortar mix could make a fine and smooth sandy almost stucco like look outside the shower.
04-23-2007, 09:52 AM
You are correct in that my tile in the shower will extend fully to the ceiling. The walls outside the shower will have tile from the floor to about 3.5' up the wall. Above that would be painted drywall (or other material with similar look). The entire bathroom ceiling would be drywall or similar.
For the lower half of the wall outside the shower that will be tiled, can that tile just be mounted to regular drywall since it won't be directly exposed to water?
I have emailed Wedi to see if they have alternative finishing options for their product if tile isn't used. Will post what I find out.
04-23-2007, 10:57 AM
tile on drywall is fine too.
where the shower ends, extend the wedi a foot or two since this is still wet in my opinion. I have seen a lot of paint peeling in a lot of places, at the edge of the tile where the drywall starts after a shower or tub shower. Whether to plaster the Wedi or not depends on whether they say you can. I think so, since it takes cement, and plaster is similar.