View Full Version : Whats the answer to this question? Many plumbers, all different answers
johnny5
03-03-2007, 11:21 AM
I have an constant clogging issues with my upstairs toilet (cannot handle any solid). I have installed two new toilets, both have had pressure assistance (toto, jacuzzi). Both have clogged. I installed the toto down stairs and it rocks.
Eveyone tells me its the toilet, but it can't be if it works somewhere else. My thoughts would be that it is the vents and they are blocked. Plumbers are telling me no, its the toilet. They are saying the vent has nothing to do with it. It is mainly used to keep the traps for the sink and toilet filled with water by preventing a vaccuum, and does not really have to do with the toilet flush, and actually it would flow better. That does not make any sense to me.
Here are my two analogies:
1: For all you who have partied a little bit college, do you remember shooting cans of beer. Cut a hole near the bottom, pop the top and suck it down. It would not flow as fast without the top popped to prevent the vacuum. The high flow of the beer is why people do it.
2: All the old school Hi-C aluminum cans, where you need to puncture a hole in one side, and puncture a hole on the opposing side, or else its flow is very poor. Once you puncture the adjacent hole, out comes the delicious fruity beverage.
Am i right? Do these things make sense? What is the REAL answer???
ANy thoughts would be appreciated.
You are using the wrong analogy, because the toilet is already open to the atmosphere where you look down into the bowl, you don't have to punch a hole in it. If you construct a siphon with a short "outlet" drop, it will "suck" the water out of a vessel. If you make the outlet drop down further, the pressure differential between the source and the outlet becomes greater and the siphon "sucks" faster. Your toilet, and its outlet pipe to the vent, is that siphon. Without a vent, the drop pipe becomes part of the toilets siphonic action and it will work much better than it would with a vent. Your problem is not a vent, but if those two toilets are on a different riser than the one downstairs you could have something caught in the pipe, such as a TV antenna mast that someone dropped down it one day. ( and you wouldn't believe how much trouble that was to remove.)
johnny5
03-03-2007, 01:19 PM
when i removed the toilet from the upstairs i took a garden hose and sprayed it into the hole to see if it would back up. I also poured gallons of water down into the same drainage pipe, and there was not any sign of backup:confused: Not sure if anything could be stuck
jadnashua
03-03-2007, 01:38 PM
While that test answers one question, it still begs the question of something blocking the pipe when the contents includes turds and toilet paper. Just liquids may flow, but as soon as you include anything else, it gets blocked.
johnny5
03-03-2007, 02:57 PM
excellent point:)
master plumber mark
03-03-2007, 03:28 PM
Do you have KING KONG living
with you or perhaps someone the size
of an Elephant????
Is their anyone in your home that
leaves something "very special" in the toilet??
johnny5
03-03-2007, 04:39 PM
no, we are a family of small people
Gary Swart
03-03-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't have any answer for the clogging problem, but if the Toto (or any toilet) rocks, it is not set properly and will eventually leak if it isn't leaking already. It's always dangerous to assume anything when addressing an issue on this forum, but assuming the flange is resting level on top of the finished floor, when the toilet is set, the horn should seal with the wax ring and the outside edges of the toilet should be solidly resting on the floor all the way around and the toilet should be level. It should never rock, so if it is something is not right and needs to be addressed. I don't think the clogging problem is related to the rocking toilet in anyway.
Dan Pick
03-03-2007, 08:56 PM
I don't have any answer for the clogging problem, but if the Toto (or any toilet) rocks, it is not set properly and will eventually leak if it isn't leaking already. It's always dangerous to assume anything when addressing an issue on this forum, but assuming the flange is resting level on top of the finished floor, when the toilet is set, the horn should seal with the wax ring and the outside edges of the toilet should be solidly resting on the floor all the way around and the toilet should be level. It should never rock, so if it is something is not right and needs to be addressed. I don't think the clogging problem is related to the rocking toilet in anyway.
Gary
I think when he mentions a TOTO toilet rocks he means if flushes well( slang term)! A toilet that rocks is OK
Dan Pick
03-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Johnny,
Have the line snaked to make sure there are no obstructions, preferrably with an auger.
Dan, when Gary Swart talked about a toilet that rocks he is talking about it physically rocking.
johnny5
03-04-2007, 04:07 AM
Dan is correct, the toilet does not physically rock, it ROCKS :D , woohoo (in a good way, slang) anyways, i am having a plumber coming over who will auger the pipe, and we will see from there.
DaleO
03-10-2007, 11:58 AM
did you happen to notice the wax ring. Was it all squished out and partially blocking the exit hole in the toilet? This is a common occurance i see alot of.
when you install a toilet over a new wax ring,it should contact the bottom of toilet and squish out a little bit,but not so much as to where its blocking the exit hole in the toilet.I frequently remove and reset toilets,and knock on wood,ive never had one leak or ever had problems with them blocking up,unless it was something down further in the pipes. good luck.
its kinda a cchitty job.
Mike Swearingen
03-13-2007, 07:48 PM
johnny5,
I'm not a pro plumber...just an old DIYer for more than 50 years.
Sounds to me like this could be a clogged built-in trap inside the toilet itself. If you can't clear ait from the bowl side with a toilet auger, pull it and clear it from the underside with an auger.
Good Luck!
Mike