Water While Soldering

[BigBoschMan]

Here is the oldest dilemma in the Plumbers Bible I suppose & if it's been asked a million time's my apologie's.

After shutting the main water off there is still a contiuing trickle thru the supply line's not allowing for a proper soldered joint.

The old white bread in the line trick is my only solution but is there anything else that can be done to alleviate this once in a while problem??

Thought's are much appreciated!

BBM

http://www.terrylove.com/images/soldering_bread.jpg

[Randyj]

Yep.. forgot the name of the tool, it is mentioned in several posts on this forum...but for some good money you can buy a tool which will do the same trick as an old stale piece of bread....just like my great great gread grand daddy used to hold water back while he soldered a pipe. It's an age old plumber's trick, it works, it's cheap and readily available, and it's as fast as a $30 tool. The tool probably will hold back more water pressure than the chunk of bread tho'

[Gary Swart]

I had exactly the same problem and here's what worked for me. I took a long strip of towel that was thin enough to fit inside the pipe and attached it to a piece of stiff wire. I wanted to solder an elbow on the pipe, so I threaded the swab through the elbow and then into the pipe. I had the pipe end and elbow cleaned and ready to flux and solder first, so as soon as I had the swab in the pipe, I fluxed and fit the elbow on the pipe then soldered. I then pulled the swab out of the pipe. I took a little trial and error to get everything the right size so the seal was made but not so tight it wouldn't pull out. Of course, I had to quickly solder a nipple and valve onto the elbow, before the water got into the elbow, but it was seeping slowing enough that it didn't create a problem.

[Randyj]

You had good luck Gary... you'd have been S.O.L. if that towel caught on fire and you had no way to pull it out...except to turn the water on to blow it out. I'm glad it worked for you but I'd hesitate to do it....tho' I might have to use that idea one of these days.....

[Gary Swart]

I pushed the swab in deep enough that it wasn't likely to catch fire.

[Racer814]

bread.....honeybun,hotdog bun, etc. etc.......just remove the aeraters when you flush out the bread

[markts30]

If it is a really stubborn leak, we use "jet-swet" and a ball valve...

[Cass]

If your main shutoff is not working you need to replace it.

That will do 2 things, it will give you a working shutoff in case you have an emergency and need to completely shutoff the water, something you can't do now, and it will allow you to solder without using any special tools.

You end up with a correctly working system.

[BigBoschMan]

That's a great point Cass which lead's to another question.

Replacing main shut-off would require City water line to be disabled?...(or just a bigger hunk of bread?;)

Thanx for the reply's & that Jet Swet kit is likely costly vs. a honeybun.

This mean's I'll be stopping at the bakery on the way in this morning.

[hj]

The bread thing, I have never used it in all my years as a plumber, will only work on "draining" water. If the main valve is leaking it will push past the bread, usually about the time when you have the joint half made.

[sfphoenix75]

I just looked at the Jet Swet tool. Nice idea but I've often wanted to solder an elbow on a pipe with some water in it and I don't know if the Jet Swet tool would work in that scenario.

I usually just use bread - it works most of the time but its not a great solution because often it absorbs water too quickly.

You might try a product called "plumbers bread." I saw it at L****'s the other day. Its basically the same idea as using a bread plug but its less messy and claims to work better. If you go that route, let us know how it worked.

[Racer814]

no...bread will not hold back water under pressure


but it will do nicely in a pinch when you are dealing with the intermittent trickle from a copper pipe.......and for the record I only used a honeybun once:)

[Racer814]

I just looked at the Jet Swet tool. Nice idea but I've often wanted to solder an elbow on a pipe with some water in it and I don't know if the Jet Swet tool would work in that scenario.Bingo...I have one .....used it a few times but after the novelty wore off it went to the land of misfit toys.....I cut the water off at the meter anyway and very very seldom have one that won't shut off........

[Racer814]

The bread thing, I have never used it in all my years as a plumber, will only work on "draining" water. If the main valve is leaking it will push past the bread, usually about the time when you have the joint half made.now how do you know that hj.....you just said you have never used it in all your years.:D

J/K:)

[SteveW]

I have used "Plumber's Bread" a couple times and it works well. Seems to absorb more water than real bread.

On the debate over why one would even need to use such a trick, if the main shutoff is working - seems to me to be mostly a matter of time. As a DIY'er, I have the luxury of time when doing a repair in my own home. I can shut off the water, open every faucet, and drain the house down for a couple hours if I want. The pros, on the other hand, wouldn't have time to do this. Every time I've had to sweat a horizontal joint in my basement, there has always been some residual water just waiting to spoil the joint I'm working on, unless I let the whole system drain for at least an hour.

[Randyj]

Seems like the biggest problem I have with this sort of thing is on hot water lines. If there is no shut off for the hotwater tank then the whole tank tries to empty from the pipe I'm trying to solder.

[coz]

Disconnect the meter if its city water put a new ballvalve on the main.If its a well, kill the power drain it down put in a new ball valve. why overcomplicate things. if hot water is the problem kill the power to the waterheater and drain it down a little open everything up.

[coz]

Trick for verticle line ( take sprayer part out of spray bottle put hose in pipe pump the water out)

[canton]

A union allows the water to fall out and you don't have any pressure build up.
You simply solder in the union and tighten up after.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Been soldering for 21 years now, never got into a situation I couldn't sweat the pipe.


Dropping bellies in the pipe, having the water run out of the water heater at the same time creating a partial vaccum, disconnecting the humidifier feed to furnace, all of which stopped the flow of water long enough to close up the solder joints.

I could pitch my jet-swet tools as I don't think I'll ever use them.


Remember that a constant leaking line can be a anti-siphon fill valve in a toilet not doing what it was designed to do, stop the reversal of flow. Flush the toilet and that will stop the slow drain off.

[Cass]

Ahhhhhh.....how about a sharkbite.....or sharkbite and ball valve set up??????

They are now making ball valves with sharkbite connections built in also.

Cash Acme makes a sharkbite PRV.

Still the best solution is to replace the main shutoff valve.

[srdenny]

bout freezing the line before you solder?
http://www.**************.com/coldpipefreezingkit.html

[prashster]

Cut.
Loosen adjacent straps.
Bend pipe gently down to cut.
Let drain for 30 mins.
Stuff w white bread.
Cheapest and easiest if it's a 'once-in-a-while' situation

[srdenny]

How about freezing the line before you solder it? Freezing kits can be rented.

http://www.pollardwater.com/emarket/Images/coldshot.jpg

[BigBoschMan]

Great advice as usual.

I heard about the freezing of pipe's with Carbon Dioxide used in England before.Like turning water into dry ice.

Would it be safe to say that using propane as opposed to acetylene just can't heat the connection enuff to overshadow the effect that trickle of water has on a stubborn soldering joint?

[Randyj]

The heat is only part of the problem... the steam generated when the water trickles across the joint contaminates the weld and prevents adequate bonding (annealing????). You defintely get a possible problem with it breaking loose or leaking about the time you pack up your tools or some time in the near future.

[mrclean]

Sharkbites are one of the best inventions in the last several years, in my opinion. There are several times when, in a local hotel, I would have been ankle deep in water if not for the quick connections that they provide. As for the bread trick, I have used it a couple of times.....it works, but the customer sure does look at you funny when you start stuffing that bread into their pipes!