Re- gluing ? re-melting PVC w/ pvc solvent

[pitterpat]

Can you re-glue or Re-solvent or reuse a pvc fitting that has come loose? Or is it better to cut it all out and start over w/ new fittings (45, straight pvc)?

[jadnashua]

If it came loose, then maybe they just forgot to add the glue after they dry-fit...happens. If you can get it out, then wipe it off, prime it and the mating piece, add the glue, and slap it together. Should work.

[pitterpat]

No Jim....The glue was added, but it came apart today.

[jadnashua]

Well, it is possible that there wasn't much solvent left in the stuff when attached (it turns to a gell, sort of), or they didn't use the primer and the pipe was dirty. In any case, if it came apart, I'd wipe it off, reprime, and (using a fresh can of solvent) reglue it.

[hj]

Either there was little or no glue on the joint, or their was a problem with the pipe or fitting not being the correct size so the glue was the only thing holding them together. Even a halfway properly done joint will not "just come apart".

[kordts]

I guess there isn't much difference between handymen or handywomen. They both think they can plumb. I have seen cases where pipe or bushings won't stay in the hub, they just keep pushing out. The only times I have seen old joints pull apart was when there pipe was in a bind, or the pipe was cut too short, and it was pulled into the hub. After several years, especially if it is a line that drains that hot water, the joint seperates.

[pitterpat]

Why is it that some people think it is their to take a swipe at anybody they think they are superior to? I'm just putting some pipes together. Keep your personal comments to yourself......If you could do everything perfectly everytime then that makes you God...and since we have not seen the rebirth of God I don't think you have the right to take swipes at other people.

[Gary Swart]

There are just a few reasons a PVC joint can fail. Most of them have been mentioned, but here's my list of what could happen.
1. Insufficient or fault cement/primer.
2. Failure to fully insert the pipe into the fitting because of a bind.
3. Not holding the pipe and fitting together until the push-out ceases.
4. Not applying cement/primer to the inside of the fitting as well as the pipe.

I can imagine how it two pipe sizes could have been mixed up, but perhaps it's possible.

Just a closing note. When we respond to posts, we are usually writing off the top of our heads and seldom proof read. Often poor choices of wording may be the result. Don't take things in these replies too literally or personally.

[leejosepho]

Even a halfway properly done joint will not "just come apart".


I guess there isn't much difference between handymen or handywomen. They both think they can plumb.


Why is it that some people think it is their to take a swipe at anybody they think they are superior to?


When we respond to posts, we are usually writing off the top of our heads and seldom proof read. Often poor choices of wording may be the result. Don't take things in these replies too literally or personally.

One of the more difficult situations for any professional is to have to work on something after somebody else has already tried, and it is easy to imagine that same kind of challenge occasionally popping up here at the end of a day.

Keep doing your thing there, pitterpat, and keep asking questions and listening to answers even if they might sound a bit gruff now and then. PVC is quite forgiving, and "just comes apart" is something it nearly never does. And for those of us who think we can plumb, well, that is one of the things we must learn.

Were you dealing with a pressure line or a drain line?

[pitterpat]

Drain line. Re-did it today. It'sin a tough spot in a hole in the floor. It will not be used for the next 2 wks because I have the sink and vanity out that drained into that line. New vanity will not be put in until the 15th at the earliest (Special order), so I will have plenty of time to test the line b/4 it gets covered up.

Thanks, Pat

[leejosepho]

Drain line. Re-did it today. It'sin a tough spot in a hole in the floor ...

I have had some tough ones where the parts will all fit once they are together, but getting them into place can be difficult at times. One thing that is always important is to twist/turn the pipe or fitting once the connection has been made and fully seated. What that does it to help spread the cement all the way around and evenly inside the connection, especially if a piece had to be "angled in" just a bit.

Also, I usually try to assemble "against the flow" or toward the fixture in certain situations. For example, I will try to have a hub looking up at me through a hole so I can drop a pipe down into it rather than placing a coupling on a pipe and sticking the coupling down through a hole while hoping to hit the outgoing pipe squarely. That also helps with the cement dauber in low-clearance situations.

[artmg]

Pat I agree with your comment to goofy. I felt it necessary to ream him out this morning when he made an obnoxious comment to me dealing with my thread on using 3/4 or 1/2" copper. I'm new to this site but have read many of the comments and his are by far the most useless. Most everyone on this list seems ready to answer questions and are very helpful. They take time to ask questions so that they understand the situation. He just spits out stupidity it must be he doesn't have a life and hangs around these groups because he feels important more like impotant. What's that saying about no such thing as a stupid question...there are however stupid answers and goofy has a PhD is stupid. How about a new name for him... Dr. Goofy.

[solsacre]

can't we all just get along?


I've only had PVC "come apart" a couple of times.... It has been joints that won't glued.

I have also seen PVC glued together with ABS glue.... It sounds like you've been doing this a while and would notice if the glue was black and not the right kind... but it still needs thrown out there....

as for reusing fittings, if there in good shape than do it... there are "drill" bits that will take the pipe and leave the hub.... when you have to use it it's a lifesaver.


good luck

dances-with-pumps

[kordts]

Pat,
I thought I gave some helpful answers to your question. My snide comments were directed at your proudly advertising the fact that your a handyman, but you are doing plumbing. One of the biggest problems I face as a legit plumbing contractor is unlicensed handymen doing plumbing work. As a matter of fact most of them advertise something like this, "why pay for expensive plumbers? call Joe's, $40.00 an hour." Hell, I can't start for my van for $40.00. So, I got an ax to grind against unlicensed people performing plumbing for money. If this is a project for your own home, my apologies, but your little slogan ya got there led me to think otherwise. I proudly drop a dime to the state plumbing inspector for my area when I see handymen advertise they do plumbing, because it's a crime in my state. So that's why I get pissy and act like a jerk.

[hj]

Here too. In fact a handyman/handywoman is not allowed to do any project that exceeds $700.00 for ENTIRE job including all trades. The comment that this pipe is for a sink drain, AND is in the floor, raises a red flag that it might be an "S" trap situation which is illegal in every state and code that I know of, although Australia seems to love them.

[Plumb or Die]

Yeah, when somebody's out there charging people for a service that they can't provide without going to the internet, well that's just wrong. And gives the real professionals a bad name. Let's all go buy some old Time/Life books at a yard sale and call ourselves electricians!:D But the stories about unscrupulous contractors getting sued does make great reading in the newspapers.

[geniescience]

all true.

I remember pitterpat from another forum, and let's give her a break. She is a tile person and non-plumbing handym'n. Today, this job, this project, is perhaps --and she is honest enough to know -- perhaps too complicated to do alone. So Kudos to her for coming to TerryLove. It started as a question, a reasonable question. At some point anyone can find the job is suddenly "more than you bargained for". It happens all the time.

david

[kordts]

Yeah,
but that's the time to call a plumber.

[Randyj]

I've been out a few days but am back around, in and out now.... come back to this particular conversation which is quite odd. I'm a plumber having to take on handyman work to make ends meet because all the contractors around here hire unlicensed plumbers who don't know diddly. I like tile work too but the illegals really cut my throat on new work. All of it pushes me into a corner of having to do remodeling and light repair work. I'd love to have 2 or 3 big jobs a year so I'd know when or where I was going to work for a couple of weeks at a time. I kinda feel that the local developers just turn their nose up at me because they know they can hire some "good ol' boy to come in for about $15 an hour and plumb a $500k house. I was offered a job at $450 per fixture and lost it...in the big city the same job would be priced out at $800 per fixture. And people wonder why I'm willing to drive 125 miles and stay in a motel to take on 3 jobs at a time to get a good week's work. I'd love it if I could just do plumbing and nothing but plumbing all the time...but thank God I very rarely have to work after dark or out in the cold, mud, and rain. In all the areas of Alabama where there are inspectors anyone can fix plumbing legally but can not break open a water line or install new plumbing without a license and permit. It has nothing to do with the price of the job. Supposedly, if a job is over $10k it has to go thru a general contractor....don't know if that's true or not but I was told that today.

[mike08201]

Just yesterday, the fella at the plumbing supply store (Grant Supply) told me that ABS is superior to PVC since PVC joints will come apart if that are hit and no cleaner was used.

[jimbo]

My experience does not support the last comment by mike08. I feel ABS joints are much more susceptible to a "dry joint" condition, where poor solvent penetration makes a joint which can be twisted or banged out.With either type of pipe, insufficient cement, old cement which has started to gel, or cold temp. can cause problems.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

that the piping "could" of been used shortly after the joint was made and contaminated the solvent weld joint.

I had this happen to a SCH40 glue joint on a trap under a kitchen sink years ago. It took 3 years for the glue to break down.

Trap started leaking on the glue side opposite of the union joint, customer caught it in time.

On the premace of those who do plumbing that are not licensed:


I understand that there are companies/handymen that do this all the time as part of a whole job randition to minimize costs/create job security/avoid numerous subcontractors in what sometimes be remedial jobs. I don't even bother ranting and raving over this factoid because no matter how much you do, someone is at the big box store doing unlicensed work. Can't stop it.

There are "some" however that you can tell by their line of questioning in response given that they need to walk away from the situation.

I personally don't think the plumbing industry could handle the demand if all of a sudden DIY'rs and these companies unlicensed stopped doing plumbing repairs and some limited new plumbing work.

I do have a huge beef with dumbasses that don't ask questions and don't know their codes in their area and go out, screw up someone's plumbing system for a reduced price and call it good.

There are those out there that take stride in doing it right that are not qualified plumbers.


In the end there is a great deal of truth to the next statement; it all eventually comes back full circle to the licensed plumber. Eventually someone goes beyond the unknown, can't get the system to work right anymore and then they call in the big dogs.

I couldn't tell you how many DIY'r or handymen hack jobs I've approached and worked on and had to rip it all out to do it over.

Job security for sure.

That's why I have no trouble helping others for free on the internet; they are at least trying to educate themselves to do it right, and that counts a great deal for their integrity to handle the task at hand.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

If you think about it, aren't we as plumbers "enablers" by contributing to the cause of helping others giving away the advice?

Discuss.

[kordts]

Dunbar,
you know I have nothing but respect for you, even though we do disagree on tankless. Do you want to start a new thread topic on your last post? I totally agree with you there.

[jimbo]

It is simply unreasonable in this day and age to assume that no work will be done by DIYers. That is not the state of the world today. We might wish that plumbing remained a "secret" trade, with knowledge and material available only to the initiated. That day is gone, like it or not.

We can choose to assist these homeowners, or not. Your choice.

[kordts]

jimbo,
it's not the homeowners I mind helping. It's the unqualified DIY/handyman doing it for way less than legit plumbers can, getting in over their head, then asking our help so they can cut our throats, that's what gets my goat.

[mike08201]

Kord, I understand and agree with you. If it is any consolation, the help afforded to me by this group is for my own house.

We desperately needed a new kitchen and the equity loan is only so big.
One of my customers (I run a millwork facility for a lumber yard) is a builder and if it wasn't for his desire to do something nice for me to repay all my help to him, the framing would have been done by me also. But, alas, I take over on the mechanicals and the interior.

I will say, I am blessed having been in the industry for 25 years, a few bits of info have been retained, but I will admit to needing a polish from time to time, since plumbing and electrical are not my core business. Plus it's been 14 years since I redid my bathroom.

By the way, I'm the type of guy that even gets his interior remodeling inspected. I consider myself lucky for a small fee (the permit) I can have a qualified professional inspect and either approve or correct my work. It brings piece of mind and worth every penny.

[kordts]

Guys like you are why I help out. I hope your house turns out great.

[jadnashua]

Install them right and they are fine. That's the same thing with many things - there is a right way and a wrong way. Unless you do it right, all bets are off.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Dunbar,
you know I have nothing but respect for you, even though we do disagree on tankless. Do you want to start a new thread topic on your last post? I totally agree with you there.


You can have the honors..go ahead. I'm curious to see the opinions gathered, create a poll.

[Verdeboy]

If you think about it, aren't we as plumbers "enablers" by contributing to the cause of helping others giving away the advice?

Discuss.

There's a market for non-licensed plumbers--a very big market. Aside from people who can't afford a plumber and would rather hire a handyman (or handywoman), landlords and property managers--all 50 million of them--are not going to hire a plumber at 80.00/hr when they can get someone to work for 10.00/hr. changing out faucets, toilets, sinks, etc... along with all their other maintenance duties.

Thanks in no small part to this forum and all the great advice I've gotten, I can provide a quality service to my customers in those areas I feel comfortable working in. If I get in over my head, I do not hesitate to refer them to a good plumber, electrician, etc.. Many of my customers can't get a plumber to even come out to give an estimate, either because they live in a very rural area or because they live in a rat-hole. So, it's doubtful I'm "cutting the throat" of any plumber--just trying to make a living.

[kordts]

Eric,
that's the problem. In my state, plumbers need to be licensed, and they have to work for registered contractors. Anybody else doing plumbing is breaking the law. Even plumbers who are "moonlighting" or doing "siders" are breaking the law. As far as not being affordable, it's usually a matter of not wanting to be able to afford it. And is it fair to plumbers to let somebody else take the "easy jobs" and push off all the shitty stuff on real plumbers?

[Randyj]

About all I can say or compare to is stuff like auto mechanics. Take your car to a "shade tree" and you find a skilled but not polished plumber who's worth about the same price working on old worn out houses (I've done plenty of it!). Then you take a shiney late model car to the dealership for repairs or maintenance and you pay about the same as a good plumber is going to charge for his hourly rate. There are comparable wages/rates for various trades and working conditions. I guess the big thing is how well you sleep at night when it's all done. Unless it's just a PITA customer I always sleep well after doing a plumbing job for a honest and decent customer who simply appreciates my work....I'm fair/not cheap...and very frequently get tipped and never ask for it.

[Cass]

I don't know where I sit on this.....

If all handy men stopped doing plumbing, after a while, there would be a glut of plumbers and the hourly rate would plumit. Like the glut of techs in Floridas HVAC buisness.

On the other hand I don't like it when I lose a job to a handy man that installs a water heater for $100.00.

I also know a licenced new construction plumber that installs water heaters for $75.00.

I have to think this through more.

[harleysilo]

6 years ago i worked as a maintence man for an apartment complex for 1 year. My boss, new a little about a lot, and taught me a lot. Main plumbing duties were replacing toliet valves, handles, supply lines, Un clogging toliets showers sinks, replacing hot water heaters, garabage disposals, icemakers valves etc.

We never had to run any pipe, other than some copper when installing a new water heater. We used the "real" plumbers for anything else, included big snakes, water main breaks etc.....

I understood exactly why they wanted to pay us$15 an hour to do the above work, cause who knows what a plumber would charge to change a handle on a toliet, $80? 1 hour min?

Now from a homeowners perspective, with the advent of On-line forums such as this one (free easy acess to info) I can't justify paying a state certified plumber to redo what another certified plumber messed up when I can fix it myself. I don't make enought money either.

A big thanks to all who provide very valuable information on this sight to users like me. This site and others have saved my $thousands in hard earned cash. I'm talking upwards of $30,000 alone in the past 8 months. I sat down the other day and figured out what it would have cost to have paid the proper folks to do all the jobs I've done, what an eye opener!

[Verdeboy]

Eric,
that's the problem. In my state, plumbers need to be licensed, and they have to work for registered contractors. Anybody else doing plumbing is breaking the law. Even plumbers who are "moonlighting" or doing "siders" are breaking the law. As far as not being affordable, it's usually a matter of not wanting to be able to afford it. And is it fair to plumbers to let somebody else take the "easy jobs" and push off all the shitty stuff on real plumbers?

I'm sure there are thousands of maintenance workers in your state who do plumbing. I doubt that they are breaking any law. Cass is right, if a licensed plumber had to be called in to fix every little plumbing problem, there would be such a glut of licensed plumbers that the competition in your own industry would be so great, you wouldn't be able to charge more than 20.00-30.00/hr. There goes the college tuition for the kids, the big suburban house, and the three SUV's parked in the garage. :rolleyes:

PS: I think it's hilarious that you and Rugged are itching about giving out free advice. That's what this forum is all about. It's like going on a hunting trip and preaching all about animal rights as you are killing the deer.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I'm sure there are thousands of maintenance workers in your state who do plumbing. I doubt that they are breaking any law. Cass is right, if a licensed plumber had to be called in to fix every little plumbing problem, there would be such a glut of licensed plumbers that the competition in your own industry would be so great, you wouldn't be able to charge more than 20.00-30.00/hr. There goes the college tuition for the kids, the big suburban house, and the three SUV's parked in the garage. :rolleyes:

PS: I think it's hilarious that you and Rugged are bitching about giving out free advice. That's what this forum is all about. It's like going on a hunting trip and preaching all about animal rights as you are killing the deer.


You obviously didn't read post #22.

.

[TedL]

And is it fair to plumbers to let somebody else take the "easy jobs" and push off all the shitty stuff on real plumbers?

So, if I change my own oil and leave the challening repairs to a tech, I'm not being fair to him?

If I only call a plumber to work on the cast iron, and do the plastic piping and faucet replacements myself, I'm being unfair to the plumber?

I hope that was something written fast & loose on the fly, and not a real attitude of entitlement to easy work as well as that which truly calls for professional skills.

Do any of the pros here call an electrician when a switchplate needs changing?

[kordts]

In Illinois you are breaking the law if you are plumbing without a license and aren't working for a registered contractor. Thousands of people are breaking the law. There aren't enough state inspectors to go around. It doesn't matter if it's a factory or nursing home, potable water and waste is plumbers' work. That's the law. I don't think I bitch about giving advice to advice homeowners, I do it gladly. Also, you guys economics are screwed up. We don't have enough plumbers now, if handymen and DIYers were forced out, the need for plumbers would increase, since it takes 4-5 years to turn out a plumber, I doubt there would be a glut of plumbers to drive the wages down.

[casman]

My motherinlaw recently had both baths tiled. I got a call that the tile guy told her he wouldn't remove the toilet and she asked me if I would do it. Anyway, I told her I would. She calls back and says well, where are you, the guys here, I told her well you didn't tell me he was coming right over so I shut down my business, went over and pulled it. I was kinda irritated with the tile guy and pretty sure I made him feel bad. Later when he did the other bath she told him she was gonna call me over and the guy went ahead and pulled the toilet himself. He also put it back in. She was happy with that, until she discovered after he left it was leaking all over the place and he wouldn't call her back. It leaked so much it ruined the vanity as the wood swelled up and warped. When I got over there I found the "Extra Parts" he left in a dixie cup. It was leaking from the tank holes. I gave it some thought and now I understand wh the guy didn't want to get involved.

[prashster]

Why is it that some people think it is their (right) to take a swipe at anybody they think they are superior to? Keep your personal comments to yourself......If you could do everything perfectly everytime then that makes you God...and since we have not seen the rebirth of God I don't think you have the right to take swipes at other people.

Here, here.

PP's asking for help. So, help or lay low. If you want to flame, start another thread.

[kordts]

If you read my post, I did try to help.

[Racer814]

Just yesterday, the fella at the plumbing supply store (Grant Supply) told me that ABS is superior to PVC since PVC joints will come apart if that are hit and no cleaner was used. Mike, that fella is an idiot


don't listen to anything he ever tells you from this moment on...

[kordts]

It is true in a way. If primer isn't used on pvc, the solvent doesn't melt the joint together, it's not much stronger than the pipes just being jammed into the joint.

[tobrien56]

I just tried regluing a pvc joint that broke. I wiped it as dry as I could, then scraped it with some aluminum oxide emory paper. After putting on a bunch of purple primer, I put on the cement and reaffixed the joint. After that, for good measure, I wiped it again and did the same procedure around the outside of the joint. It seems to have worked. I don't know how much the original sealant renders the pvc impervious to solvents. In this case, there was some white pvc left that had not been coated by whatever someone used to seal it in the first place. I also found that there was pressure on the pipe from a framing member that had been installed after the plumbing was done. This probably contributed or actually caused the bust. I thought it might have been better to notice this before I glued the pipe, because the joint I reglued was less than perfect in terms of angle, but oh well it seems to have stuck. I was doing the kind of "handyman" work described in this comment stream after a plumber had been at it, and to avoid a "real" plumber getting involved. One thing I'll say, when I do that stuff, I always make the homeowner/landlord very aware that I am not a licensed plumber, and I can't guarantee my work in the same way. People appreciate that, even if they're nervous, they know I'm not trying to "chew and screw".