Zeta Rod residental water treatment

[blacktop37]

Does anyone here have any experience with this product? It puts 30,000 volts dc into the water. It will not allow any contaminates to stick to any fixtures. It sounds like the old magnet principal, but it claims to be effective. It is supposed to elimnate water softners. It also takes out dissolved solids so they do not stick to any applianes.

It costs 1200.00. We have a wter softner, it works well for calcium. The dissolved solids in the water leave build up on our toilets.

I also have water source heat pumps and I worry about scale building in them. I want to preserve my investments and i will spend the 1200.00 if it really works.

www.zetacorp.com is their web site.

thanks,

[got_nailed]

I looked at there web site and it looks a like a scam. But I have not hard of or seen this product. I have seen some that say they do the same but don’t work.

The web site reminds me of some of the “power savers” that have a few caps to help with PF. They only work if you have a low PF.

[hj]

I just talked to the rep about it Friday, and on the surface it sounds like "voodoo science" and one problem with it is that there is no way to test whether it is working or not, so you have to take it on faith.

[SteveW]

It is supposed to elimnate water softners. It also takes out dissolved solids so they do not stick to any applianes...

It costs 1200.00. We have a wter softner, it works well for calcium. The dissolved solids in the water leave build up on our toilets.




Is your water softener working? Have you tested your water?

I'm no water expert, but aren't calcium and magnesium the most common "dissolved solids" in potable water? They should be adequately removed by the softener, I would think.

[rromo]

My name is Rodrigo Romo, I am Vice President of Engineering for Zeta Corporation.
Although relatively new in the residential industry the Zeta Rod has been around for almost 15 years in industrial applications, some of our customers include the Los Angeles Convention Center and the George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston TX.
There is a misconception of people calling the Zeta Rod a water softener, it is not. It is what some people refer to as a "water conditioner". The Zeta Rod does not take out the hardness out of the water, instead it changes the physical properties of scale forming particles in the water, and bacteria and prevents them from forming deposits.
We have two sites that have plenty of information ranging from case studies, to peer reviewed papers presented in international conferences, these are:
Zeta Corporation's website www.zetacorp.com/ (http://www.zetacorp.com/)and Zeta Corporation's Zeta Rod Blog: www.zetablog.zetarod.com (http://www.zetablog.zetarod.com)

Please come and visit those sites and if you still have any questions, contact us, we will be glad to address any concern.

Thank you

R.Romo

[Redwood]

My name is Rodrigo Romo, I am Vice President of Engineering for Zeta Corporation.
Although relatively new in the residential industry the Zeta Rod has been around for almost 15 years in industrial applications, some of our customers include the Los Angeles Convention Center and the George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston TX.
There is a misconception of people calling the Zeta Rod a water softener, it is not. It is what some people refer to as a "water conditioner". The Zeta Rod does not take out the hardness out of the water, instead it changes the physical properties of scale forming particles in the water, and bacteria and prevents them from forming deposits.
We have two sites that have plenty of information ranging from case studies, to peer reviewed papers presented in international conferences, these are:
Zeta Corporation's website www.zetacorp.com/ (http://www.zetacorp.com/)and Zeta Corporation's Zeta Rod Blog: www.zetablog.zetarod.com (http://www.zetablog.zetarod.com)

Please come and visit those sites and if you still have any questions, contact us, we will be glad to address any concern.

Thank you

R.Romo

Exactly! so it is a product that doesn't do anything...
What a racket!

[rromo]

Seems to be the motto of many people out ther, like Mr. "Redwood", who are quick to pass judgement on a product without even looking into it first. But then again, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
It is just amazing how many people are willing to give an "expert's opinion" in a forum like this anonymously and without any information on the subject other than hearsay.
Mr. Redwood, have you visited our sites? have you read any of the papers we have there? if you have and still don't think our product is legitimate based on some solid scientific principles or evidence, then I respect your opinion, and I would like to hear (or read) from you what are the reasons for discrediting our technology.
We have published papers in scientific journals and given presntations in engineering conferences where our data, and the content of our material is scrutinized by experts in the field. We have installations in N. America, Latin America, Europe and Asia. Large multinational companies use our products in many different applications. Now, I wonder why would they do that if it was a "racket"......
Please visit our sites and read more about us, you may change your mind.

R.Romo

[Redwood]

Now if you could find a way to screen out those clumped up chunks of Lime & Calcium and remove them from the water that would be doing something...

Let me know when you can do that!
I'm sure we will be talking!

[patrick88]

Nice web page. I don't buy any product unless I get real user feed back. Your page says there is a forum, but I found none. I see a bunch of censored info. If I'm going to buy something I want real feedback not watered down remarks from PR reps.

[rromo]

try accesing the information from the blog www.zetablog.zetarod.com.
if that doesn't work, send us an email to info@zetacorp.com requesting for information and we will gladly send it to you.

R.Romo

[patrick88]

um ya I know how to use a web page.
your link on the http://www.zetarod.com/res_z2o_residential.html clearly states Zeta Rod Blog offers forum for discussion of zeta related topics. When I click on the link it takes me to the blog, but no forum. The only reason I have seen a Co. do that sort of thing is when they get to many bad reviews and don't want people to know.

[patrick88]

Patrick:

you can contact me directly at rromo@zetacorp.com and I can provide you with any of the information you need. by the way, was it in the website, or the blog that you found the restricted information? we have done some recent modifications to the website and the blog is relatively new, so we would appreciate if we can get any feedback on where the problems are so we can debug.

Thank you

Rodrigo Romo

you don't have restrictions. Just no listing. I have no need to find any more info about your product. I'm sure it is a good product. Please send further messages to the main forum. Thank you patrick88

[Redwood]

Can I get one with lights that flash to the music like a freakin disco...
My basement is like a 70's retro decor...

[Gary Slusser]

The word "forum" has other meanings than we use here in Terry's "forum", which really is a Bulletin Board and that is what the software to run it is called. A blog is a "forum" for discussion and works very much like this bulletin board.

BTW, I've seen a couple of the electronic anti-scale, descaling devices work in residential applications. They left a lot of white powder all over everything the water was allowed to evaporate on. In closed loop situations I hear they work quite well.

[Bill Arden]

I also have water source heat pumps and I worry about scale building in them.

You are better off cleaning out any buildup using a week acid if it does have a problem. As far as I've been able to tell, the buildup in the heat pump builds just as fast as the buildup in the regular cold water pipes. (I.E. very slow)

Buildup is really only a problem at discharge points(faucets) where air and evaporation occur.

I also hate to say it, but there is no way to prevent buildup in a situation where the water is evaporating like that occurs around the aerator on a faucet. If there are minerals in the water, they will be deposited.

I've use white vinegar to clean buildup on things like this, but I'm thinking there are better products made for this kind of task.

The Zeta product seems to be targeted at reducing buildup in the hot water heater and swimming pool heaters. Heated water deposits scale for different reasons than what occurs at faucets and other discharge points.

[99k]

Within the past six months I read a very thorough article in Water Conditioning and Purification about all these devices that use magnets or fields that claimed they somehow they changed the properties on the elements so that they would not stick to pipes.

I was very interested in this because the nuisance of loading salts, backwashing lines, etc. From what I remember, the article concluded that none of these worked or if they they worked there was no way to prove it. Save your money and your reputation was the conclusion.

[Redwood]

From what I remember, the article concluded that none of these worked or if they they worked there was no way to prove it. Save your money and your reputation was the conclusion.

Exactly because they do not remove the Calcium and Lime from the water...
The Hardness of the water doesn't change!
Whether or not it builds up in pipes is irrelevent... Who Cares!
I want soft water!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/rev-zombies-voodoo-shop-776645.jpg

[nhmaster]

Well, because of the "massive" amount of information out there (not) on this process, this would be a great topic for Google Boy to recearch for us. However, these scams have been around a long time. Just because a salesman was able to convince a few gullible schmucks, does not an endorsment make. The problem with the entire concept is that the amount of energy that it would take to actually accomplish anything is huge. Way more that 30,000 vdc. Besides that the magnet for this device would have to be so strong (and large) it would take up most of the basement. And once the iron had been collected by the magnet there would have to be a way to remove it from the collector. The same goes for lime and scale. If you collect it, you need to remove it and this "device does not seem to have that ability. This post and another similar post on another site have (at the same time) have me believing that there is a bit of spamming (subtile though it is) going on here as well. But here's the big question. If this works so well, why don't municipal water departments use it?

[Redwood]

If this works so well, why don't municipal water departments use it?

Could it be that no one wants to get laughed out of the room when they propose it?

Here's a thought... Maybe for a good laugh someone in a position to make a proposal to a municipal water department could do it on April Fools Day...

Maybe even have R.Romo come in and make the pitch...
Slick Powerpoint Presentation and all...
Rattle dem chicken bones... pull out the Master Plumber 101 doll and stick a few pins in...
Have a good ol' time!

[nhmaster]

My name is Rodrigo Romo, I am Vice President of Engineering for Zeta Corporation.
Although relatively new in the residential industry the Zeta Rod has been around for almost 15 years in industrial applications, some of our customers include the Los Angeles Convention Center and the George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston TX.
There is a misconception of people calling the Zeta Rod a water softener, it is not. It is what some people refer to as a "water conditioner". The Zeta Rod does not take out the hardness out of the water, instead it changes the physical properties of scale forming particles in the water, and bacteria and prevents them from forming deposits.
We have two sites that have plenty of information ranging from case studies, to peer reviewed papers presented in international conferences, these are:
Zeta Corporation's website www.******.com (http://www.******.com)
and Zeta Corporation's Zeta Rod Blog: www.zetablog.zetarod.com (http://www.zetablog.zetarod.com)

Please come and visit those sites and if you still have any questions, contact us, we will be glad to address any concern.

Thank you

R.Romo

Mr. Romo; your very own web site claims that water softeners can be replaced with the Zeta Rod? Yet by your own admission the Zeta Rod does not remove anything from the water. So are you saying that your product will or will not soften the water? Which is really, the reason people buy softeners in the first place. Also all you literature says the zeta rod is a capacitor. As I recall a capacitor "stores electricity" , usually between two plates. Is the rod itself a capacitor and if so where and how often does it discharge? If it never discharges, what's the point? The Zeta Rod does not work as a bacteriological filter by your web site, nor does it remove iron or for that matter anything. So If I'm reading things right, the particulate is "charged" so they can't stick together and form scale. Great, but the particulate is still in the water and still comes out the fixtures every time you open the faucet. I'm sorry but this is looking more and more like snake oil all the time. One more thing. There can't be more than $ 15.00 dollars worth of parts and you're getting $ 1,200.00 Seems a bit stiff but then at that price you don't have to sell many to make a profit. There's a guy that lurks around these parts selling pipe re-lining. You should team up with him.:D

[Redwood]

There's a guy that lurks around these parts selling pipe re-lining. You should team up with him.

I think he already is...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/voodooduraflo.jpg

[Gary Slusser]

Scale in a water heater or pipes is a serious problem. The only way to be sure scaling is prevented and removed if it has formed, is with an ion exchange water softener that is correctly sized for the flow rate of the building.

[nhmaster]

I will make an honest an open proposal to Mr. Roma and his product. I have the facilities to thouroughly test your product. If you will provide me with the Zeta Rod product and a list of the parameters that the product operates within, along with a list of the claims you make for the product, I and my class will put your product to the test and report our un-biased results to the forums.

If you truely believe in your product than please contact me either openly on this thread or you can P.M, me anytime.

[Redwood]

UH-Oh!
Don't do it!
You may not want to hear what you already know....

[nhmaster]

I have a feeling my offer will be met with defening silence.

[mapetrone]

Just to help this move along I wanted to mention that the product does not remove anything from the water. As the water comes across the "charged" field, it's charge is "changed".

I'm not familiar with the Zeta Rod specificially, but this process does work in a controlled lab. The lack of a "charge" makes the water harder to stick (acting like a softner). Although, I'm skeptical about the ability of the process when gallons of water are moving by every minute.

Good luck on your choice, there are a few other companies out there.

[nhmaster]

I have no problem with electrically charging water. The problem is that softeners remove those chemicals that cause the water to be hard. The charging process does not remove them, they still flow out the faucet. If I do a hardness test on the charged water will it read any different than if it was not charged?

The other problem I have is with the warranty which basically says there is no warranty.

[nhmaster]

Still waiting....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Redwood]

Don't hold your breath...
Could be fatal...

These purveyors of Voodoo Water Softeners just keep popping up like bad pennies...
Here's another one that showed up and trie to clear his name... never went anywhere (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?p=125837#post125837)

[alternety]

I am not defending this product, but there is significant merit and utility for this sort of result when you are talking about "process" water in an industrial environment (or an open loop ground coupled heat pump). The scaling problem would be fixed and the water is discarded so no one cares about the end state of dissolved solids. The success would depend on the lifetime of the effect in the pipe.

I am a bit confused after reading the residential FAQ. They are talking about charging colloidal particles that pre-exist. But the things that are the target are dissolved solids. Are the "particles" the individual compound molecules? They also seem to claim that even with no flow, water upstream of the devide will be processed. That one is a little tough for my head.

More musings on what if.

If the lifetime of the effect is sufficient it may also be useful in circulating water heat exchangers. Other uses would depend on what happens when water evaporates during part of the process. Are the resultant solids such that they simply rinse away? It probably would not be a benefit for open loop boilers because the particles would accumulate as the steam is produced (unless they were very small maybe).

As described in this thread, it would not seem to be particularly useful in the average residential or multi-user water system. If we knew the size of the resultant particles we could evaluate the possibility of filtering the particles, thus removing the dissolved solids. It would also be important to know exactly what elements or compounds will be changed from dissolved to solid. Or if that indeed happens. It really does not seem that it precipitates/aggregates anything. Rather the opposite. They claim that the residue is water "soluble" and it can be rinsed from affected surfaces. That is the same end result you want from softened water in terms of collecting on fictures, tubs, shower, etc. A water softener does not actually eliminate the compounds that form a film; if changes the compound from one based on calcium (insoluble) to one based on sodium which is soluble.

If there is a way that it could precipitate all arsenic compounds and create particles greater than about 0.1 - 1 micron, you would have a much simplified way to get arsenic out. If it charged the arsenic compounds such that they could be removed by an electric field later in the process; that would be real good.

It would be interesting to hear a response from the vendor on these points.

I suffer from the problem, but we really have to beware of absolute beliefs in what can not be true (e.g., the world is flat, you can't be killed by living near that rock [radon et all], man can not survive the stresses of traveling more than 10 MPH, can't fly, for damn sure no one can walk on the moon, no one could possibly elect him to a second term, ad infinitum).

If you look at the diagram of the system, it is very similar to the system discussed in the wells forum a while back. That one was being pitched to swimming pools.

[Redwood]

This one would be fine in a recirculating system like a cooling tower where they are looking at anti scale devices but they make the big name claims of who is using it, and market it to homeowners to treat their potable water.


Although relatively new in the residential industry the Zeta Rod has been around for almost 15 years in industrial applications, some of our customers include the Los Angeles Convention Center and the George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston TX.

Clearly a misapplication with them cashing in.

[nhmaster]

And, when you offer to test the product for them, they dissapear. Looking a lot like snake oil to me.

[Bill Arden]

There might be a effect, but I don't see any verifiable and testable real world experiments.

You would also have to separate the different types of deposits.
1. Cold water deposits. This is very rare and occur in all the pipes and the well pump.

2. Temperature difference deposits. (rare) This occurs anywhere the water cools off a small amount like what happens in a heat pump.
This also occurs in the hot water pipes and faucets when they cool off.

3. Heated water deposits inside the hot water heater. This occurs due to a slow crystallization process. This is also the process the Zeta Rod looks like it's intended to prevent.

4. Evaporation deposits. This occurs on the faucet airator, sink, tub, toilet bowl due to the water evaporating. There is no way to prevent the deposit, but a water softener will change that deposit to one that will wash back off when it's wet again.


This all reminds me of the time that I was asked to look over Luke's "Media fusion" microwave/maser based power line communication system.
The details are complicated, but I determined that although there may be a "magnetic acoustic" effect that would allow communications... His Site selection and substation configuration would make it impossible to separate RF communications from any power line communications and therefore His Test was invalid.
FYI: The investor took my advice and stayed away. :)
Luke spent over $5 million and failed.

[nhmaster]

Bill, that is all along my line of thought also and I'm sure the reason why I will most likely get no response.

[rromo]

As I have mentioned before, it is very easy to post your "expert" opinions in an internet forum behind a nickname. We are not going to be losing any time in these type of discussions where anything we say, will be taken as "snake oil".
Our first post, if you look back in the thread, was in response to someone who was asking about the Zeta Rod. We saw many comments and opinions from many of you internet authorities in water treatment that were clearly made without having even looked at the product. So we decided to make some resources available to people who may have questions about it, that way they can hear it directly from the manufacturer.

We posted our contact inforamation as well, yet we still have to hear from anyone regarding this site, or asking for tests. Do you honestly expect me to send a free unit (I assume you want it free) to someone who goes by "nhmaster" and gives no indication of who he is, or what his qualifications are other than proclaim to be a "master plumber"?

This will be the last comment we post, since there is no point in trying to have a decent and formal discussion with anyone here. So if anyone is interested in finding out more about us, contact us.

Thank you.

[nhmaster]

Mr rromo. if you pm me I will give you any information that you desire about me, including my phone numbers and credentials.

[Redwood]

It's easy...
left click on the blue NH Master and select "send private message to NH Master" from the pull down menu.
You will find that he does have the credentials and perhaps the unit can be returned after testing...

[mapetrone]

Very sorry about the lateness, busy... I don't think the hard water test will come out differently because you are using a chemical reaction which would change the charge of the particle. A quick example, Salt is natural in the body, but we don't harden up. That is because the Na and Cl molecules are kept apart by a charge.

I don't know if that made sense but here is another company that sells a similar product. Good luck on your choice... www.EasyWater.com

[nhmaster]

Still waiting.......................................

[Redwood]

Very sorry about the lateness, busy... I don't think the hard water test will come out differently because you are using a chemical reaction which would change the charge of the particle. A quick example, Salt is natural in the body, but we don't harden up. That is because the Na and Cl molecules are kept apart by a charge.

I don't know if that made sense but here is another company that sells a similar product. Good luck on your choice... www.EasyWater.com

Different company same BS...

[Waterguy]

I purchased the Zeta Rod system about 5 years ago to use in a reverse osmosis application where the feed water had a hardness of about 17 grains per gallon. I decided to try the Zeta Rod to see if it could extend the life of the three membranes I had in the system. It failed to do so! Not long after I installed it, I had to dis-assemble and clean out the calcium deposits from the clear plastic flow meters in the system as the floats became stuck. Also, pressure drops in the system occurred after about only 2 months with the Zeta Rod in operation. Operating pressure is normally 200 PSI and not long after, the pressure dropped down to 150 PSI. The membranes were becoming fouled!! The company had to replace under warranty, two or three reaction chambers (bad threads) along with a couple of electrodes and power supplies after they had failed to operate. My conclusion of this NCD is that it failed to deliver it's advertised function in a reverse osmosis application where the water had a hardness of 17 grains per gallon. I would be very skeptical of it's successful operation in other applications as well.

I removed the Zeta Rod and received a refund from the company, and in the end, I had to install a 5 cu. ft. resin-based softener which solved my membrane fouling problems.

You can draw your own conclusions!

[nhmaster]

Thank you for your honesty.

[SewerRatz]

Thank you for your honesty.

NH but these really work, along with Whirlpool water heaters and Voodoo dolls.

[hj]

The representative said he could prove it works, but he would have to bring a semi truck with at least $50,000.00 worth of equipment to do it. Testimonials from users are worthless, because even psychics get testimonials from their customers to prove they are legitimate.

[Waterguy]

I have been in the water purification business for 24 years. If you would like to purchase and try the Zeta Rod for yourself and find out that it does not work, please don't let my testimonial stop you from wasting your money!

[nhmaster]

The Zeta Rod guy got so pissed at me on another forum that he threatened to sue me if I didn't stop bad mouthing the product. I just laughed in the face of stupidity. You can't sue a guy for telling the truth. :D

[jimbo]

1. A blog is another word for a "liar's chat room". One sided, no unbiased opinions. THIS forum is open to all comers, and you are free to take someones opinion for what it is worth. But when the seller of a product runs the blog....no thanks!

2. I fully expect Billy Mays to be advertising the magnet water system soon. When he decides to sell something, people buy! There are some otherwise reputable and well known local media personalities here that hype the water system, and it is the same deal. People BELIEVE them, and we know in fact that their only knowledge of the system is purely anecdotal. "here...see how good this water tastes....wow that is good!""

[Waterguy]

To nhmaster:

I don't think they would get very far with that!! Which forum was it? I'd like to read it.

[Waterguy]

And just what makes you think the water magnet system does not work????? Hahahahaha!!

[Waterguy]

Yes, the Zeta Rod system cost $1,200 for the residential model. I would guess it probably costs around $200 per unit to manufacture, if that. That's one hell of a very profitable product and enterprise!!!

[climing]

Installed Zeta Rod in 2008 when house was constructed. First unit failed. Copper pipes above water heater had to be replaced. All fixtures show scaling. Photo attached. Call Zeta Corp. and get the runaround. Simple as that.

[Tom Sawyer]

Oh man, they is a coming after your LOL You should have used Easy Water, now there's a product that really works LOL

[ballvalve]

At least that pipe will never rust out. Until it closes up.

Does Zeta sell stents?