Pex Problems

[Verdeboy]

I had to tear out a bathroom floor today in a pre-fab home to get at a leaky pipe. It was a crimped-on Pex tee that had snapped off in one place. I bought a compression tee, but it blew out after only a minute. I knew it would. The hose connector part of the tee fit too loosely in the Pex, so even if you screwed it in tight, it would blow out. What a piece of crap!

I heard the crimp-on tool is expensive, so I told the owner to call a plumber. There's also a couple of other pex pipes that have a bad looking kink in them. Is that normal or just a bad install?

[jadnashua]

The compression fittings must be spec'ed for pex. A sharkbite will work. A compression fitting needs a (typically) stainless steel sleeve insert so when you compress it, it actually will hold - i.e., you have something to actually sandwich the compression ring to, otherwise, the pex just continues to crush.

Kinks on pex should be avoided as it weakens it and restricts flow.

[Verdeboy]

The tee had a label on it that said Pex 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/2" which is the one I needed.

[OldPete]

First off, I'm NOT a plumber but I CAN tell you a few things.

A) That work is total crap. Nothing is supported. None of the bends have tenders on them (plastic/metal supports for the bends.) (They aren't always needed, but in that jungle, they should be!

B) Those aren't kinks. They are total restrictions.

C) I wouldn't use that Watts looking compression thing you have there... I would use a sharkbite or do it right.

Ugggh. I know sometimes my work isn't perfect, but that is just plain BAD!

[Verdeboy]

He at least wants the leak fixed so he can turn the water back on. I've never used a sharkbite. Can someone give me a few pointers.

[Cass]

That doesn't look like any PEX I have seen.

That is PB.

Home D sells Quest repair fittings and such for PB.

Why did the comp. blow out?

[Phil H2]

Does it looks like this: http://www.pbpipe.com/photos.htm

[Cal]

That's NOT Pex ,,, it's PB. Go to your supplier or look sharkbite fittings up on the internet ,,,, You need 'em BAD !

That guy needs to have a re-pipe . Won't be long before another one blows.

Sharkbite are made of brass with internal clamps and O rings, they work great for repairs , are expensive and WORTH IT !

Cal

[Cass]

I strongly recommend against the use of a sharkbite fitting on PB.

While I haven't used any on it I am going to guess that the fins that dig into the pipe to hold the pipe in place have a good chance of causing a failure greater than a small leak. I would use the Quest compression repair fittings and splice kits if necessary. There is no reason they shouldn't work if installed properly.

[hj]

I use Qest compression fittings to repair PB tubing.

[Randyj]

Being out in the boonies the only place that is close for me to buy parts is a convenience store which is very well stocked with plumbing supplies (lots of vacation homes on this lake). They just started stocking shark bites so I will get an education on them there. At my old home place the local hardware carried plastic repair couplings/fittings which varied in sizes and were labeled with what kind of pipe they would fit (Probably Quest)... I don't remember the name but they work great on PVC, copper pipe, and PB. PB is a soft plastic and you MUST have a barbed fitting or something like a brass insert for a repair fitting to hold. If you've got a vernier caliper you can get the o.d. of the pipe which really helps. For the uninitiated it is easy to confuse PEX and PB. All the PEX I've ever seen is red, white, or blue...not gray, not black. PB (a.k.a. funny pipe..not funny) is outlawed in lots of places and I cringe every time I see it. For me, I've never installed PEX but it appears to be the "bees knees".....

[Verdeboy]

I guess the guy at the hardare store misled me. He said I had the "old style" Pex pipe. I'll see if I can get the PB fittings.

PS: I just called the hardware store, and they said they sell an insert for the PEX fitting that lets you use it for PB. THey also have the Qest fittings.

Thanks

[Gary Slusser]

Cass etc. is right, it's PB not PEX. You could say that PEX is the replacement for PB. It is the same size and installs the same way, including homerun or branch and teed, with the same type of fittings (insert/barbed, crimped or compression) but it is totally different material and so are the plastic fittings. If I'm right, the pictures are of Acetal fittings; gray plastic insert and crimped. With high chlorine waters they can fail fairly easily.

I see no reason to replumb the house but those kinked lines need to be repaired and I'd use QEST compression tees, 90s and couplers with PEX after cutting out the old tee and past the kinks a few inches.

QEST (US Brass) compression fittings are used on all CTS (copper tubing size) pipe/tubing; CPVC, galvanized, copper and PB. The white compression fitting in the picture is only for PEX. QEST fittings are fail safe as long as you do not overtighten them; which means you must read and follow the directions to tighten only until they squeal and then (I go) another 1/2 turn and quit. I've never had a failure or leak of any QEST fitting and I've used them since the late '80s. PE requires the smooth insert fitting to prevent collapse as you tighten the compression fitting. With a QEST fitting, PEX doesn't need the smooth insert.

All Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, (most) plumbing supply houses etc. have QEST compression fittings.

[master plumber mark]

that is a mess and will cause mucho mucho greif...

its just a matter of time....



I have used sharkbite fittings quite extensively
to get me out of troubles with
this crummey polybuteline junk....

considering what you are working with,
the shark bite fittings will outlast all the surrounding
fittings ..... their is no doubt about that..

I have gone back out to the same house and added
a couple to other spots that started leaking...

could not convince the owner of the mess they had



that looks like a re-pipe to me...

at the very least make them sing off
on some sort of waiver.....

becasue you will be back....

[hj]

You can use PEX crimpers with PB, but you have to have a special crimp ring, and if I remember correctly a transition fitting.

[Verdeboy]

The Qest compression fitting did the job perfectly replacing the broken tee.

I couldn't reach the kinked sections to replace them with more Qests. I would have to bust up the floor in the next room to get to them. I did the next best thing, which was to support them in such a way as to take pressure off the kinked area and lessen the restriction. If they break off, then I'll be back tearing out the bedroom floor.

[alternety]

Wasn't the problem with PB the fittings and not the actual pipe?

[Cass]

The pipe also had problems. I have repaired many leaks in PB pipe that had nothing to do with a fitting. Little pin hole leaks in the pipe.

[master plumber mark]

I have never had pin holes in the PB pipe


usually in this area we are getting long
splits along the length the pipe.....


either way its best to not guarantee anything

[Randyj]

My general practice is to rip it out and replace it... not to fix it.

[Cass]

Yes ripping it out and replacing it is best but repair it until they are ready for the repipe

[Verdeboy]

That polybutylene really is crap! I had to move the toilet supply line a bit (also made of PB) and the damn brittle stuff snapped off at the shutoff valve. Had to make an emergency trip to the hardware store. I cut off that whacky shutoff valve with the spring in it that you have to push in and turn at the same time. Got a nice 1/4 turn shutoff and braided supply.

BTW, those smaller white compression fittings work fine for the 1/2". They just need that additional insert for the 3/4", which the guy at the hardware store neglected to tell me the first time around. But, I'll still use the Qest for underground repairs.

[Cass]

The Qest repair stuff works great for doing repairs.

[TNPlumber]

I run into a lot of PB still in use in mobile homes in my area. I usually give them the speech on their first pipe failure that they need a repipe and that repairing individual breaks will only cost them more money in the end. It usually takes at least 2-3 breaks before most agree. Personally, I avoid repiping mobile homes like the plague.

Scott

[Verdeboy]

I mentioned about the re-pipe and he said he'd sell the double-wide before he'd pay a goddamn plumber that much money.

I pieced the new bath floor in, so the next time a fitting breaks, I just need to unscrew a small section and i can get it fixed in short order.

[Pewterpower]

Walk away, let the pipes break, buy the mobile home for cheap, repipe it, sell it for double. It's the American way. :D

[gator37]

I fought repairing PB for 15 years till I had it replaced with CPVC. My advice it to get rid of it. Problems were pipe splits and shear at the fittings...nothing but problems.